Furnace Filters, HEAP Programs, and the Law of Unintended Consequences

Well, look at that. I'm telling you, time is flying. It's time for another Wise Home Energy Show on the WYSL stations.

I'm eagerly sitting here awaiting what we're gonna be talking about with majordomo Jeff Flaherty. Hey, Bob. Thank you, so much. It's, uh, always great to bring some energy to the Wise Home Energy Show, and that's really what you do. I just come along for the ride. No, no, you bring your own brand of special energy.

All right. It's so cool. Well, one of us is a co-pilot- Or warm ... at different times. Yeah, absolutely. So already, uh, kinda getting into the fall season and, uh, uh, getting some of those cooler nights, so it' kinda makes us think that we' might have to start thinking about winter.

I don't- I don't wanna say that, but, uh, it just, uh... it could be that' time of year where we have to plan and, and prepare a little bit.

Uh, sometimes we, uh... went into a home the other day, and the furnace-- The home was, like, uh, built in '90, so 34 years old, but the furnace was, uh, installed in 2011. So it' looks like they've upgraded their furnace, and, I-I'm starting off with one of my pet peeves is that when you get the builders and builder grades, sometimes in order to cut costs, they say, "Well, let's not have a filter slot."

So they, so they- Oh, geez. Now the, now the homeowner has to climb inside the furnace or remove all the doors to change the filter, and that's really not a good system. We don't- want the homeowners taking doors off of our dishwashers, our refrigerators, and, our furnaces, so- Because largely it won't happen. It, and it really doesn't, and it starts clogging and, and then they're like, "I'm not getting enough heat, and my furnace- stops working." And, um, it's a, it's a terrible, uh, a plan in my opinion. I hope it's done. I hope builders are saying, "No, we're gonna need a spot for a filter," um, 'cause it's, it's a frustrating peeve of mine. Uh, I'll tell you what else is a peeve of mine is driving these days. Driving is, uh, a crazy endeavor. Just driving here, you know, it's like, you're always like, "Wow, that guy, uh, or person almost, uh, crushed me by making a completely poor decision." But a couple days ago- Well, they're all on the phone first of all. Yeah. And they're, they're apparently getting... They're, they're leaving late, so that's another, uh, example of preparing. But you should leave a little earlier because, uh, apparently you're late because you have to drive 20, 30 miles per hour over the speed limit, and this is not NASCAR.

Uh, but we, uh... the other day I was, driving to work, and I'm at a, a f- a four-way, uh, intersection with a, a light, and I'm at a red light, and the horn starts honking. And, uh, I, I look up. I'm like, "Did the light turn green?" And, and no, it was just somebody on my right corner, uh, bumper trying to get by to make a right. And so, um,

I kind of push up a little forward to be accommodating, and when I realize, like, what am I doing? I'm just trying to be helpful. And my window was up, and hers was down, and I, I shouldn't have said hers. It, it... maybe it was him. I, I didn't know.

It's okay. And I- I know what you-- We all know what you mean, Jeff. And I kinda yelled like, "That's not a turning lane. That's a shoulder." And, you know, and, and it's, it's funny. It's like we, we all walk around with our desires and, and she or he wanted to take a right, uh, and I had n- now moved into the crosswalk. So someone else's desire had, to break the law had, had forced me to break the law, and I, I, I was disappointed in myself. But, but it kind of reminded me of, um, home performance in, in, uh, whenever we have an action, there's a, a reaction or an unintended consequence. And similar to, you know, not being able to access that furnace, filter, um, you know, there's gonna be ramifications. You're gonna have a, a poor indoor air quality. You're gonna have trouble with the furnace. Um, uh, so, you know, y- you can go down the list, uh, and think, "Oh, maybe, you know, people that don't get a comprehensive home assessment from Wise," uh, and they start installing work. Like, you probably might not be getting, um, a good quality, uh, uh, design and build if you don't do that assessment first. Uh, you know, people that don't run their bath fans or don't have a bath fan, uh, might see moisture, uh, and mold growing on their, uh, bathroom ceiling. I, I- was talking to a gentleman the other day, and he said he, he got a complaint from somebody who had, uh, mold on their ceiling. And they had kind of a higher end system where they had a, an HRV and an ERV. And he went over to their home, and, and, uh, HRVs and ERVs, uh, if they're designed at install, they're gonna draw from the negative, uh, a- areas of indoor air quality, bathrooms and kitchens.

Mm-hmm. And so they pull the air, and then they supply back to living spaces like bedrooms and, and living rooms and things of that nature, and it changes the air out and gives you fresh air and... Uh, but there'd been no maintenance on the filter. So there's a filter that filtrates the air, and then there's a filter that when the air is coming in, it's more of just making sure pests and bugs don't get drawn in through that air.

And neither of them had had any maintenance, so they were all clogged, so the system- Sure ... is not working. So the, so the, uh- So this is the intake fan, right? Yeah. So that there... And then it'll have a filter that'll clean that fresh air.

And, and so these things take, um, they take, uh, maintenance, and they take thought and kind of the same thing with a car. The car, you know, is designed and, and usually works fine. It's the operator that we are seeing is becoming the problem out there on, on the roads and- How, how many times have you been in somebody's bathroom? You know, you're visiting somebody's home, and it was built in the '50s or '60s.

And so you go in there, you close the door, and you look at the exhaust fan. It was put in when the house was built. Yeah. Now, you think that that motor is turning at the right RPMs anymore? Yeah. Delivering much air pressure? I' think not. Yeah. It's, uh, it's amazing, and they don't, um- They, they, they come rated with a, a design cubic foot per minute, but that doesn't mean that's what it's gonna exhaust.

One is it has to be on. It only does that cubic foot per minute for how many minutes it's on. But you have to... You actually have to measure it. 'Cause what happens is when you start adding elbows and vents, that starts restricting it, and you're not gonna get the, um, uh, uh, ventilation and the cubic foot per minute that you expected 'cause you read it on a box.

So that's kind of the guessing part. When you guess, um, you just guessed based off of the box. We test. We'll put a device up there and measure it, and then we know, hey, this home, um, we wanna design with this much fresh air for this home. Uh, we can put that bath fan on a timer.

Um, so we... But we have to... Uh, we can't do the calculation of 60 minutes times what the box says. We have to do-- We have to test it, then do the 60 minutes to know how much ventilation is actually gonna be going on in that home in the hour. And, um, those are... And that just got me thinking of, you know, all those, the kinda law of unintended consequences, really. Uh, kinda the same thing when people don't use blower doors and they do insulation work. Uh, the improvement might not really solve the things that they were trying to solve 'cause we don't know the starting point of that air leakage of that home. The blower door test, uh, measures the amount of air leaking out of that home.

Uh, we do that, uh, complimentary on, uh, average size homes when you get a no-cost, uh, assessment through, uh, the NYSERDA program. So, uh, that's just a one-page application for, uh, anybody of any income. Uh, we just get a utility bill and, uh, that application, and then we can do that assessment, which is m- uh, largely required visual inspection by the state. So we supply the information and, um, uh, to the state because they're the ones paying for us to do the assessment. So, um, when you, uh, uh, when you, when you just do the visual, it's just visual. So we do tests. So we will offer that blower door test, and we will also add a 30-minute indoor air quality test to that assessment at no cost on, on most typical homes. Now, if you're getting, um, if you wanna go for the advanced rebates, uh, with the, uh, income qualifications, then you have to supply some documentation. And I, I was at a home recently and, uh, the person said, "You know, I don't, I don't like any- everybody getting into my business and doing all this." And it's like, "It's okay. They don't have to. They're just not going to give you the grant."

So it's, it's, uh... And, and Big Brother really isn't checking these. Uh, they're just making sure you're income eligible. They're verifying our pictures to make sure the home qualifies for the work. Um, there's a, there's a TV commercial out there by a, a contractor that works in the programs and says,

"You can get $10,000 of free work." And that's, that's disappointing. That is possible, but it's, um, it's kinda like you could get, you know, a doctor saying, "You can get $10,000 of free work. Come on in." And, you know, the person says, um, you know, "I'd like, uh, some, uh, a facelift and I'd like some Botox and I'd like this." And, but the doctor says, "Oh, no. Uh, all we're doing is, um, we only do knee replacements if you need one, and we'll do, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, triple bypass if you need one." So the state is looking for their list, and then the customer just hears that there's $10,000 of free work. It's a come-on, in other words. Yeah. And it's like- Like the car dealers that say, uh, you know, uh, "Get the Cadillac for $259 a month." Yeah. Uh, as long as you're, uh... And then the little disclaimer starts to run that you can never- Yeah ... understand. You have to be a left-handed Navy admiral, uh, who, uh, owns a dairy farm-

... and, uh, uh, has an IQ of 168 as documented by three independent sources and so forth. Yeah. That's exactly what it is, and it harms us 'cause people start yelling at us. You know, I don... And the, and the rules change so fast. Like, I'd rather just go play baseball 'cause those rules seem to stay the same and they change very slowly. But, um, we're-- The changes that take place, um, with the state programs i- is challenging. And, um, everybody wants to keep up with the Joneses on their, their free stuff or their subsidized stuff, and they'll be like, "You know, so-and-so got this."

And we have to be, uh, good stewards of the program. Um, we wanna be, we wanna be honest with our clients, and we wanna be honest with the state. And I always think when customers tell me, you know, uh, that a contractor kinda maybe misled,

I wanna say, "If they're willing to mislead the state, what do you think they're willing to do in your attic?"

You know? No kidding. They're, they're not gonna have, um, these boundaries where we're ethical in your home, but we're not ethical with the grant program.

So that, that's a frustrating thing for me and, and, uh, our crew complains about it because they're like, "Ah, this makes it so hard." And I just say, "We're gonna stick with our plan. We're going to operate with our system.

Come in, do the assessment, get the data, apply, you know, abide by the rules, and we're gonna do good work." And, and really a lot. of these rules, in my opinion, they're, they're broad rules to kinda catch the contractors that' aren't playing by the rules. Mm-hmm. So- unfortunately, we're taking the hit on' that because it's, it's tying us up, slowing us down, um, where we just wanna come out, do the assessment, ask you what's going on in your home, what problems you'd like, to fix.

Um, if we' don't know the problems there- It's, really, um, hard to, hard to fix. Um, you know, uh, I, I do wanna get a, I wanna get a shout-out, uh, to the show. Um, we get, uh, you know, people come through our website, uh, with an initial inquiry and, um, I see 'em, I see 'em all. They, they come to my, uh, they get copied to, to my email and

I, I, I glance at 'em to, to just get a base understanding o- of who's coming in. And, uh, um, this person was up in Irondequoit and, uh, our intake coordinator, uh, talked with this person and they said,

"Hey, Jeff, they love the show on WYSL. They've been listening for, uh, years. They love it' and realize that, you know, it's time to make a move." They've already had work done 12 years ago, five years ago, and they know, Wise Home Energy is the right choice to come in the home. So we haven't been in the home yet. I'm gonna- Yay. I'm excited to, um, you' know, find out, uh, what the home is doing and, uh, you know, uh, not identifying the home or the person un- unless that person wants me to. But, uh, I'm excited to come back, uh, at another show and, and really tell, um, how that person benefited from, uh, hearing us on this show, the education we do, uh, every week, Bob.

Um, I know it makes a difference whether the people call or not, but, uh, I'm excited to see, uh, what we can do on this home. I think- And they' may not call right away either. You know, they, they' may make a mental note of it and may- Yeah ... listen to the show and enjoy it, but how often do you need revisions to your HVAC?

Right. Uh, so the day will come probably when they're gonna need some help. Yeah. And by the way, if you don't mind my jumping in here and just asking everybody, you're listening to the program, by all means, uh, give these guys a call or email them and let 'em know, even if you're not in the market for, uh, revising your, uh, HVAC right now, or, you know, doing a home study, uh, or applying for, uh, a program or whatever, just let 'em know that' you're listening and, uh, that, you know, in the future, if you have a need, that you'll be happy to call Jeff and the great folks at Wise Home Energy at that all important phone number.

Yeah. That's 585-270-5836, and you can call or text or the, the website is wisehomeenergy.com. And, and really on that note, um, say... You know, some people g- coming into your home is a very personal thing, um, and we have to climb into a lot of areas of the home, but, you know, maybe you don't want us out to the home, or maybe you're listening to us on the podcast and don't listen, don't live in the area. If there's a topic that you'd like, uh,

Bob and I to discuss in more detail, uh, certainly send suggestions. We will certainly, if it's home, home energy, home health, home related, um, we can certainly put it on the docket and, uh, explore it in more detail. And as we've, you know, heard over the years, we bring in experts, uh, in their field to talk in, in more, uh, granular nature of, uh, of specific areas of the home and, and, and, and products and solutions, uh, is our big motto.

So yeah, it's, uh, it's exciting to hear and, uh, you know, when it's, when it's, when it's 70 out and 70 in, you, you don't really have any needs in your home. The home is just kind of the temperature outdoors, right? We got our windows open and... But when you're, when you're in the heating and cooling stages of the seasons, that's generally when you, when you need these, uh, uh, services and, and just identify what, what problem you wanna have and, and we'll go from there. And, you know, we were talking earlier about, uh, winter coming and, and cleaning, uh, getting a service on your furnace. It's a great idea to, uh, to have that. Uh, people don't have that often.

A lot of times we open the door, uh, in an assessment and we just see corrosion. We can see, uh, condensate from an AC, uh, or a malfunctioning, um, humidifier.

And when you catch that right away, you get to fix it and solve that problem. So if you're not having your, uh, furnace, uh, cleaned and tuned, uh, a- at least, uh, every other, year, I would say, but at least, you know, when then. But, you know, even every year is a good idea to go through the safety features and, um, it's, it's a good investment. It's worth, uh, worth the time and, and money to do that. And, and there are programs, you know, we talk of the grant programs, but there's a, a program, HEAP, uh, Home, uh, Energy Assistance Program, and, um, you know, they help out with, uh, fuel payments. But they also have programs where you can get a, uh, no-cost, uh, clean and tune service. So you should call up, uh, the HEAP office and, and get on that list. It's, uh, it can bring you peace of mind. Um, you know, it's... Most people don't open up the hood of their engine and start working there, right?

It's not-- These aren't things that people are comfortable, uh, working on, or worse, you know, we've, we've been to YouTube University and we know, um, just enough to be dangerous. Um, so, uh- Yeah. Uh, where do, where do they find the, the, uh, the, the HEAP contact information, Jeff?

So you can go right on, um, uh, the web, uh, and just Google up, uh, HEAP. Um, it's called the HEAP Clean and Tune Program. H-E-A-P it is. H-E-A-P. And that'll give you, that'll give you, uh, each, uh, uh, county, uh, has their own independent office, uh, managed by the Department of Social Services. So, uh, it's definitely worth it. Um, I wanna say the stats of, you know, the people that are eligible. Years ago, we used to, um, uh, attend a lot of these, uh, in my, in my previous career, uh, seminars, and I think about 40% of the people that are eligible take advantage of it.

So it's worth it because, when we, get the call, they're like, "My furnace is d- dead and it's not working." We're like, "This hasn't been serviced in 20 years." Wow. Like, literally, we're pulling filters out that are just caked and you can... You know, it has an R value because there's so much- ... you know, cat hair in it and stuff. So it, it really, you know, if it's not in your wheelhouse to go down and change that filter or examine that furnace, uh, this is, this is a smart program to call up. and, and, get involved.

And, and from there, um, you know, kind of along those same lines of the NYSERDA programs, uh, have These energy grants and you get additional grants if you fall into these, uh, income-eligible programs. So, uh, it's a one application that covers both programs.

Uh, we'll look at, uh, for two people, if you have household income less than 63,000 a year, uh, based off of last year's tax return or, um, the last four weeks of pay stubs, you're eligible. So, uh, and it, and it staggers based on how many people in the home. But, um, you know, some people are concerned that we're, you know, uh, once you get in the home... I mean, we're not the window people or, uh, you know, some of the legendary, uh, we're gonna get in your home and stay for two hours and twist your arm until you buy.

It, it's-- We're gonna show you the information. We're gonna ask you what's going on in the home, and we're gonna show you ways to solve your problems. If you don't have any problems, we generally don't have a lot to show you. We might say, "Your furnace is 20 years old. You might wanna consider upgrading that before it's, you know, before it makes you upgrade it." Um, but, but to offer people attic, uh, insulation or other air sealing, if they don't have a problem, we recognize that why would they do it? It doesn't make a lot of sense. We'll show you what's available, but if you don't have a specific, um, uh, concern in your home, we're not gonna sit at the kitchen table until you call the police to re-

... to get us out of there. In fact, we collect all the data and leave. We have to go work it up. It's a- Yeah ... complicated process. So- No, sales pressure. Yeah. None, none of that crap. Yeah. It's, uh... So, um, take advantage of it. Even on these, um, you know, uh, subsidies things, usually there's some small things we can do for no cost. Uh, some light bulbs, things of that nature. Um, and from there, um, sometimes there's attic insulation, and then sometimes you'll be offered, um, some additional items with a contribution. Uh, and if you, if you don't wanna make that, that's, that's fine. It gets complicated because these calculators are so, uh, challenging that if they, if they say they don't want it, then we have to go back into the portal and, and redo it, and it takes time.

It's, it's a... And people always say, "Oh, why does it take so much time?" It doesn't. If you just-- If you wanna pay full price, we will give you the proposal, you will sign it and give us a deposit, and we will put you on schedule.

We don't ... All these things don't take that much time. It's just someone else is gonna pay us, and the people that are paying us, they're the ones making the rules. Um, so I always say, if it's, if it's legal, healthy, and safe and you'd like, to pay us to do it, and we do it, you- know, we, we'll just, we'll just... We can operate on a, a private contract. No, we can't go back to the state afterwards and say, "We did this work and we need the rebate now." It' doesn't work like that. It's gotta go be from the beginning. Yeah. We, need the approval upfront. Um, so you have to have a little patience, and, that's why this is a great time to talk about. If you were cold last winter in your home and it wasn't that, uh, rough of a winter, now's the time to make that call because we get very booked up. And, uh, one of my, you know, heartaches in the middle of the winter is when we get some snow and some ice, people call up and they're frantic. They want you out there to fix it now. And so removing ice is a, uh, a, a temporary fix. It's kinda like you got a flat tire. We're just trying to get you off to the shoulder. We wanna get you out of harm's way. But when you have ice and d- and water coming in your home, you can't even do anything in the home because you have, you have a wet attic now. It has to dry out. We have to have the ice melt off. If you chip it off with an ax, you're probably gonna break some shingles.

Uh, so the best, uh, course of action is to get ahead of that game and, and plan now. Make that phone call. Uh, start that assessment process. Yeah. So beginning to end in, in a situation with an assessment and, uh, you're, you're gonna get the rebates and so forth, is, is there a timeline, the approx... very approximate timeline that you can throw out there how long it takes? Yeah. Usually we're looking, you know, the initial, um, application, we get it over to them.

It, you know, it, it ranges from them getting it back to us from one to seven days. If it's a one-page application, we can book that appointment right, away. If it's, uh, an income-based one, we now need to get approval and we have to upload that.

So that usually within, uh, seven days we'll get the approval, then we can book the-- schedule the assessment. Typically, we're booking out, uh, one to two weeks. As we get busier, it'll, it'll start pushing out farther. That's not bad. It's not bad. And then we get that assessment and what happens there is we then have to, um, we have to work that up and this is, this is complicated. You only wanna do this once in your life. So, uh, we're-- we've bring in the-- we've brought the tools and now we need to bring the expertise and, and there's a delicate balance. We, we have the, uh, uh, home energy auditors out running and then they gotta get time and, and so some homes are a little more straightforward. Some homes are a little more complicated. So then we work all this up, um, and then, uh, our, our master, uh, modeler, uh, Bob in the office, uh, has to work that up and, and upload that to the state and then they play the

Jeopardy! song. We have to do, do, do. We wait, uh, three, seven days to get an approval or a denial or a, "Hey, this is how much the customer would, would have to contribute."

And then we have to, um, kind of present that to the client and say, "Is this what you want?" And, and, and when they wanna morph that, then we have to go back to the portal and... And so people get very frustrated about that. And then we'll-- at some point we need someone to sign a, a proposal. Even if it was totally no cost, we need them to sign and say,

"We want this work." Uh, and then we can put you on schedule from there. And then from, from there we, we are usually, um, we're usually on the short term four to six weeks out. When we get in our busy season, we start getting out three months. So that's why-

Um, it's a good idea to plan ahead and, and as the old saying goes, you know, a failure to plan on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. So um, chances are you knew about this.

Um, so it's good to get ahead of it. Uh, you know, like I said, we, we do our system, um, t- it seems totally different than everybody else's. Uh, one is that indoor air quality.

We do that test because we don't want to tighten up a home and make something worse. So we, we can fix all these things in a home, and then if you go out and buy things that are, um, unhealthy, candles, uh, caustic cleaning chemicals, and you're heavily cleaning all over the place, and we've tightened up your home. Uh, if you're doing lots of cooking and you're not, uh, or baking. Baking generally is, is more than somewhat worse than cooking on the stovetop 'cause the... If it's gas, 'cause the gas

CO, uh, out of an oven is gonna create some parts per million, where typically we find the burners on the oven are, are burning pretty clean.

Um, so those, those issues, how you use a home, um, are g- are gonna matter. I mean, I remember once, uh, in being in a home and, uh, uh, they had a cat, and the, the cat hair was so clogged up around the hot water tank vent, it was almost like a filter.

So it was you know, a lot of people don't go down in their basements That's not good. No, and I- Carbon monoxide from that heater. Yeah, peeled that back and, uh, so that could mean better filtration on their furnace would've helped out from the cat.

Um, so the, you know, those are the things that we're, we're looking at. Um, and you know, how the person operates. We had a quality assurance visit recently for, um, the clean heat, the heat pumps, and we installed a outdoor condenser for the heat pump, and they said it wasn't level. And when I looked at the pictures, I was, I was looking, I said, "Well, there used to be a shed next to it, right next to it, and now the shed is gone." And I'm like, "Look at the blocks on the ground. The customer moved the outdoor unit." You should not be moving equipment without contacting your installer.

And they said- Whoa ... "Is that wrong?" And so we had gotten written up, and we just wrote back and said, "Here's our pictures. They moved the equipment." You're not supposed to move equipment like that, and it ruined the insulation on the... And so there's this set of protocols we need to do. The unit needs to be level and, um, so those are the, those are the things where our pictures cover us, cover the client, cover the state, cover everybody. A lot of things to consider. All right. You're listening to the Wise Home Energy Show with Jeff Flaherty, who is, uh, the major domo of Wise Home Energy.

Uh, let's get some contact information out there so that folks can contact you with questions or to schedule an assessment. Sure. It's wisehomeenergy.com. That's three words, and then you can call or text, uh, 585-270-5836.

Jeff, always, always a pleasure to have you in the studio and to hear all the news and what's going on. Thank you, Bob. All right. Uh, get the podcast, if you missed the show here at wysl1040.com. See you next time.