Renters, Slumlords, and Why Your Furnace Filter Is Lying to You

Once again, it's time for the Wise Home Energy Show on WYSL 92.1 FM, 95.5 FM, and AM 1040. Your energy.

And here in, studio to join us, as per usual, is the impresario of Wise Energy, Jeffrey Flaherty. Hey, Bob.

As we like to say, don't be cold in your home. No. I hope everybody's warm out there. You just have to pick up the phone and there's something that... What, what happens after that? Eh, a lot of good things, a lot of good things. A lot of times that's the, that's the case, right? You gotta take the first step. Yeah. And you gotta pick up- Yes, you do ... that phone. And you may be noticing, this is the time of year when you're noticing,

"Gee, I'm cold in my home." Yeah. Some people like it' cold in their home, you know? Not- But some people like it a little warmer in their home ... not so many. I wouldn't. I don't know. You may wanna recheck that in late December and mid-January. We try to, we try to offer, uh, something for everybody. All righty.

Yeah. Yeah. So what's new? What's cooking- Well- ... at the Wise Home Energy? You know, speaking of being cold in your home, um, you know, I wanna tell you, uh, you and the listeners a- about some, uh, some, uh, challenges that I've seen over the years of, um, uh, landlords and renters. So a lot of times people think they can't really access, uh, these energy efficiency programs, and they really can. It's if you rent, you can still apply, and you have to be, uh, you know, have permission from the landlord. Um, but, uh, these, these grants and rebates are accessible. And what I've had over the, it just happened this past week, is we have somebody come, call us, up and hear about these, uh, uh, programs, and they say, "I wanna get all my properties in," and, and, um, uh, you know, I don't think it's as altruistic as helping out the tenant. And we get out to the home, and we have a standard at Wise

Home. Energy that. we're walking away. We will not work with slumlords. Um, and there are slumlords in the, w- in the world, and there are, there are people that' really treat this as a business and offer good quality housing to tenants, and we wanna work with those folks. I, uh, stepping back, I grew up, uh, my family owned, uh, a small apartment complex, and I was able to see how people, uh, can be treated properly and given, um, a nice clean, uh, affordable housing. And it was something my, my parents took pride on, and the, and the, my siblings, uh, uh, were, uh, involved in, and maybe we, we didn't wanna be involved. We were kids, but it- Yeah, right? ... it created quite a good work ethic for us, absolutely. Excellent. And, um, but that i- that's frustrating to me." And, and, and w- you know, there's no one I can really call. I really wanna tell the tenant, "You should look for other housing-" So y- "... because this is terrible." So just to understand. So, so you, uh, you have these case histories where you go out to these places, and you used the term slumlord so- Yeah. ... we're talking about, you know, all the usual horrible things that can happen in human habitation. Yeah. You have everything, bugs to rodents to leaks to-

Yeah ... mold and- Yeah ... so forth. I've been to, uh, in some of the homes we've been to is, uh, you know, years ago I went to a home, and, and there was a f- just this bucket that, you know, I would think you'd use for a beer at a, a, a picnic, and this thing was up in an attic catching rain and, and the m- you know, moisture's going, and the water's going down the second floor and mold. And, um, it- it's just, it's inhabitable really. And, and, uh, so the... What you're dealing with is with, you're, you're dealing with health and safety in the home. Sure. Um, you're dealing with high energy bills. Um, and you're dealing with, uh, a comfort. Who wants to, live in a uncomfortable home? Nobody.

We wanna be able to go over to that thermostat and turn that dial, and within reason, it should, uh, uh, fall in that number in the, in the very near future. And so not to, not to say that, uh, you know, all are slumlords. That's not the case. We enjoy working with landlords. They get it.

And what' happens is, um, so it, it's a little bit more of a process 'cause we got two people that have to do a little paperwork, but we come out to the home, and it goes off the tenant's income, which is, which is amazing. People don't understand it. So the tenant gets the benefit of the upgrades.

They get a more comfortable home. They get a more manageable utility bill. Uh, they get a more durable home, and then the landlord gets that improved property. Yeah. Um- Wow. Well, well, why would, why would they object? So l- let me just understand this. So let's say that, uh, you s- you get a call from someone who lives in one of the major, uh, big apartment complexes, you know, like Rustic Village. Yeah. One of the Tri-City f- uh, facilities or whatever, Imperial

Court or whatever it is. Uh, and, uh, they have, I don't know, 1,200, 1,500 square foot apartment. Yeah. You can actually work with that tenant. So each case is, uh, it, it, you know, naturally when dealing with government, it's always a little different. So apartment complexes when there's a large unitary heating system, that'll fall under a special program, uh, called the multifamily program. So those, that is accessible, um, but it has to be, the whole complex has to go through the program. Oh, okay. So that, that, that is legit. Um, so the more the renters I'm probably talking about are, uh, townhomes, which have their own, um, uh, utility bills and their own heating, uh, system. Uh, and then one to four families are the typical ones we see. I see. And so we go into some, of, these homes, and, uh, some of the landlords, some of them are smart enough to not let us in, uh, because- ... because we, we just should not, uh, w- we, w- if we have a health and safety issue, we might have to shut a device down. We're not code enforcement. We're not gonna be calling the city. We are gonna let the tenant know that things are unhealthy. And, and if you're that type of landlord, this program usually is not, not one you're looking for. So, um, you can' put Band-Aids on a lot of things, but, sooner or later the Band-Aid starts showing that there's, there's a, there's some deep wounds, uh, within the home. So, um, and it, and, and we wanna work, uh, because it's sad to go into some of these, homes and see that these conditions exist. Yeah. I, I lived on a, a street, um, about five years ago-

Well, there's a rental a, uh, two houses down, two family, and I would look over in the winter and I would see the ice hanging off the roof, the, the squirrels climbing in the gutters or in the house.

Um, and I could just tell the penetrations and, and every year in springtime, all of the garbage was out at the front of the curb. They were moving out. And that's, I think, what, what it was people, landlords miss is that if you make these fixes, you will retain the tenants. There's, there's quite a cost to a turnover, right? You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to have the month empty. You're gonna have to repaint the, the property. So there's a real cost to turning over these properties, um, every year because of comfort or high energy bills. So if they think in terms of benefiting their customer, which is the tenant, um, they're gonna be much better off. And, and so basically the way it works is there's, there's income-eligible programs, um, and you... It, it's based off the income of the tenant. Um, so we, we get the income, uh, we get the application, and then we get a landlord agreement, and we submit it to

NYSERDA, get them approved in the program, come, out and do the assessment, and from there we show them what's available. Some things may be available, uh, for no cost, maybe some, some insulation in, an attic.

Uh, other programs there might be some 50% off. Uh, not everything's gonna be eligible. If you have a high-efficiency furnace, currently right now, the rules are you're... they're not gonna incentivize replacing that 'cause it's already high efficiency-

So- ... even though it' might be 20 years old. What, what's, uh, high efficiency? What is that? Is there a standard for that or? So it, it's... They-- We call them 90 pluses. As a general rule, anything with the PVC, uh, going out a side wall. Oh, okay. So that PVC- Yeah ... indicates that the, the temperature of the flue gasses is, um, usually below 100 degrees basically. So the heat is being recaptured. Um, so and, and... But there's hot water tanks we can look at. Um, and just having a professional walk through the home, um, everybody's kind of their specialist. So when you have the painter come over and the carpenter come over, um, they might not be able to see these things that we see. So it's, it's a worthwhile, uh, path to take.

Um, I... You know, the ones we work with, they just love it. They get it. They... The tenants, you know... Sometimes the tenants grumble a little bit if the landlord is the one spearheading it. Once they go through it and realize they're gonna benefit from these lower energy bills from this more comfortable home. Um, once you, once you do some of this insulation and air sealing, there's less entry for a pest to come in the home. So there, there's a multitude of benefits just besides the, the energy savings. Yeah. Uh, protection from pests is a good, uh, a good thing. As a matter of fact, right here at the radio station, Monday out in the parking lot, all of a sudden, we're recording a show much like this one, and there's a National

Grid bucket truck out there along with another pickup truck. So I wandered out after the show and asked, "What's going on?" And they're working on the pole that's right out by the mouth of the driveway there, and squirrels had gotten into a... On the pole, there's a plastic shroud that, uh, that covers the cables that come off the pole pig and then go into the underground and come onto- Yeah ... the parking lot and into the building.

And this stuff, I mean, Jeffrey, this stuff was a quarter of an inch thick, this- Yeah ... PVC. Yeah. And it was lag screwed to the, uh, to the, you know, the, the pole out there, and they had ripped off sections of this stuff.

I mean, I would, I would have to use a Sawzall to do what these- Yeah ... freaking guys did. Yeah. It's dangerous. It's pa- You know, we, we see the, we see the wires in the attic sometime, and you do not want pests in your home, and especially the more bigger and larger and aggressive the pest. They're, they're chewing. They're, they're just chewing 'cause they're chewing and but they're chewing infrastructure- Yeah ... that can then lead to some problems. And, and electrical wires is, it's certainly one of the biggest ones that, that we see, and it, it, it's not something you wanna let go unattended. Uh, you wanna, you wanna attack it right away. Yeah. The utility guys said they will chew the wires too. Yeah. Not for long.

Right. But, but, but they do, they do chew the wires. Yeah. Those are the dumb squirrels. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. So yeah, that's, that's my, um, you know, take on the, the landlords and the, the renter, uh, uh, population. They should look into these programs. Give us a call. We can walk them through. We can do a site visit and just say, "Is this a good candidate?"

Um, we want good candidates. And, um, you know, when I... when we're getting utility bills, typically if it's, uh, electric or natural gas, it's, um, a delivered fuel, so there's a meter, but how is that meter being read? Um, if it's in a basement and they never get access, it... there's just an estimation every month. So you can be proactive as a, a, a renter or homeowner and call in your own reads. That's very helpful because then we can, uh, we can see the pattern. So we do a bill disaggregation when we, um, have someone come through our, uh, programs, and we look at that, that usage. It's a lot easier when there's at least a read every other month, uh, which is typically the case. The utilities are sending them out every other month, but if it's not an exterior meter, they can't get in and get that usage.

So, um, you can be your own best advocate. Uh, a lot of times there's adversarial relationships between renters and landlords. That-- This can help smooth that out. Um- Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. So, uh, you know, I'd say just give our office a call, uh, 585-270-5836, um, and, and look into it. We can have a, you know, just a, a quick conversation, maybe a couple pictures, show you if this is a, a good opportunity for you. And, you know, my other thing is if it, if this isn't a good opportunity or if your landlord isn't, uh, agreeable to look at this, this might not be good housing for you and there might be something better out there for you. Yeah. Well, I mean, why would any, any, anybody object? Uh, it's, uh, it's a, uh, a multiple benefit. Yeah. You know, 'cause sooner or later you're gonna move out of that unit, and if it's been improved, if it's been upgraded, that's a positive, uh, you know, capital

... y- uh, item for the- Yeah ... for the landlord to have done. So, uh, I assume that in the rental properties, the procedure is the same, blower door, you know, physical inspection. You're up in the attic, you're down in the basement looking through the place. It is. It is. And, and, um, to NYSERDA's, uh, credit, um, sometimes if it's a challenge, but the home is connected, so if, if it's a two-family home or a three or four-family home, we generally wanna get all units, uh, enrolled so that we can treat the whole home. So it's kind, it's kind of like going in and you say, you know, the, the tire shop, "You know, I just want one tire." I, I j- I just think- ... all four are bad, but I just wanna do one right now and see if that improves the ride. Uh, so it's, um... And, and I always liken it, you know, if, if there was a fire in the other unit, you'd probably leave the home, right? I mean, because the units are connected, so. Right. Right, right. Uh, it's kind of the same thing with energy. The home is connected, um, so we wanna get all, everybody in. And that can be, um, that can be a challenge. With two-family, it's a little easier. And, um, we get them en- enrolled. If, if it's two-family, we wanna do those assessments ideally at the same time. Uh, we always talk of that blower door test which measure the, measures the leakage of that unit. Um, one of the challenges is on a two-family home, if we measure the leakage of one side, it's really the leakage of that unit, it's not leakage to outside. Which is, it's, which is data that will tell us something. If you're smelling cigar smoke from next door, that's that leakage to the other unit.

Uh, so we can kind of identify some of those challenges, but ideally you'd almost wanna do, and it's difficult to do, is do the two blower doors at the same time- Hmm ... on each unit-

Okay ... and add the two together. That's the proper way. to do it. Little bit of a scheduling challenge, but- Yeah ... uh, you know, uh, not that bad. It's rarely done that way. Um, uh, uh, even the programs, uh, don't even mandate it, but, uh, we've done it a few times and it's interesting to see that it, y- it's, there's data when you do one at a time, and then there's data when you do them at the same time, uh, and add them together, so.

The Wise Home Energy Show on the WYSL station is brought to you by Wise Home Energy, and, uh, the, uh, chief of Wise Home Energy, Jeff Flaherty, with us here in studio. Let's give them the phone number to call once again. 585-270-5836. Okay. Where are we going next?

So, uh, as we, you know, head into this colder season, we, um, you know, think of the filters. You know, uh, so most... I should say most homes have, uh, furnaces. Uh, there's, there's rare cases. We will have boilers, we will have electric space heat, um, and now we'll have, uh, a lot more of the, um, uh, ductless, uh, mini splits. But many homes have furnaces. Yeah. And so we, we have these filters in there, and the filter is, uh, you know, filtering out the dirt, uh, and particles that are floating around the home. So how well they, they filter that air, uh, is based on a few different things. So how well that filter fits in the cavity. So if you have a one-inch filter, uh, boot that you just reach in and, and pull it out, that's not fitting that well, so air is gonna bypass around that. Uh, you have to be aware of that.

And then, then the... So that air we, we can't really count as being filtered. And then the air that goes through it is filtered, and it's, uh, based off what is called a MERV rating. So we wanna have a higher MERV rating to filter more. The lower the MERV rating, uh, we call it, we call them rock catchers. So they're just gonna stop rocks. And then, then, and then the, the, the, the s- uh- And COVID.

Yeah. And the, uh- Exactly. The COVID particle. And, uh, you know, it's not gonna catch any, uh, smaller particles. So the recommended MERV is a MERV 13, and the reason why that recommendation is, is if you start getting higher than that, you might filtrate better, but it might start restricting your, uh- Hmm ... furnace's- Yeah ... air. So re- really, when we're thinking of a, when we're thinking of a ductwork, we're thinking of just like breathing. There's the in breath, which is the, uh, return side, and then there's the exhale, which is the supply side. So, and in between that is that, that furnace filter. So we, uh, recommend, uh, a higher filtration system, which is, uh, typically a four-inch media filter.

It's gonna have, um, uh- It's four inches thick. It is four inches thick, and w- it gets in a... We can get that to a nice MERV 13, and it fits in that cabinet, um, quite well so that air is not bypassing it, so. Okay. So now let me u- understand this. So if, if you have the replaceable type filters that you see, you know, there's, uh, some kind of a plenum or whatever that you slide either the fiberglass, the loose weave, or the, uh, pleated, you know, paper type filters in there, uh, and if that's the replacement procedure, that thing's leaking up a storm. It, it is leaking. It's bypassing it. Um, even one of the things, uh, that is recommended, it might even be code, is called a furnace, um, filter slack cover. So some basements are finished and lovely. Some are unfinished, and they tend to be dirtier, dustier, so they, they have more dirt, and that air will slip right into the, the top of that sleeve right where you're pulling it out. So it's a magnetic, uh, cover. They sell it in the big box stores if you don't have one, and it just covers over the top so that air from the basement is not sucking into the, uh, furnace and bypassing the filter. So there, there's a, there's a filtration aspect to it. But also in a basement, when it's sucking in the air, where is that air sucking from? It's typically sucking from any penetration in the basement outside.

So the Rim Joy. So if you have your Rim Joy spray foam, now it's tighter. And if you have a natural draft hot water tank, um, with a little lip on it, there's a two-inch, uh, lip, uh, or gap before it goes up the vent, that can pull the air from there. That's combustion byproducts. That can be very- Ugh ... dangerous in a home.

Yeah. And one of the things, you know, here's, here's a great tip, you know, uh, when you go down and look at your hot water tank, look at the water lines, and there's, uh, two plastic, um, uh, cylinders around it or covers on the hot water tank. If they're melted, you've had some problems. That's, that hot water tank is backdrafting. Now, this is the input to the water heater? So, yep, the, the cold water line and the hot water line- Mm-hmm ... are typically at the top of the tank, and there's a little cylinder around there, plastic, and if that's melted, usually they're blue and, uh, red. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they're just gray, but, um, if they're melted, you, uh, either are backdrafting now or if you, you've been backdrafting in the past. And so backdrafting is combustion byproducts. That heat is melting those inlets, and that's coming into your home. It's carrying carbon monoxide. It's carrying, um, other chemicals.

Ew. Yeah. Ugh. It's carrying moisture, uh, 'cause there's a moisture byproduct when we, uh, when we have, uh, combustion. So those are just, that's a good little tip to just look at the top of that hot water tank. That's what we're doing when we're coming in a home. Um, so the, it, it, it's interesting that we think of that duct, and that filter is, is just, y- we don't even think of it much at all, but if it gets clogged, um, the furnace is gonna have some safety, uh, features that's gonna shut that furnace off.

So, uh, we routinely will get that call every year where, "Hey, my furnace shut off." "Hey, check your filter." And, uh, sometimes their definition of dirty is different than our definition- ... of dirty, and we drive out and we say we, we, you know, "We don't wanna charge you, but we asked you to check the furnace filter first." So, um- Back to the water heaters. Now, do you, did, just for a quick second, do you have a similar problem with, with electric water heaters?

Uh, so you won't have that with electric- Okay ... no, because it doesn't have that, uh, drafting capability. So, um, so that is a nice thing. They're a little- It's a sealed system. Yeah, they're a little safer on that regard.

Um, but that is something that really... And it can happen to a furnace, too. Most of the, y- you won't be able to visually see it as well on a furnace, and it's an older, what we call 70% efficient furnace. Um, uh, hopefully those are, uh, we're, we're getting those all out of the homes 'cause those are lacking some of the safety features that, um, would shut off in a, in a higher efficiency furnace. Okay. Um, so a- and, and on the duct work, it, it's, you know, as we suck in on the return, um, it's, uh, you know, the ducts are getting dirty, and a lot of times people wanna, uh, have their ducts cleaned and, and, you know, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have your duct cleaned, but the EPA, uh, really says that you should look into your ducts, and if there's not mold or heavy, heavy dirt, it may not be that beneficial to clean the ducts. Um, and I liken it to, like, if you, if you sweep your garage and it's very dusty and dirty, and then all of a sudden, you know, six months later you gotta do it again, like, that dust is still entering the home.

Um, the, the door to your house is the, is the filtration spot that we don't want it to go through. Mm. And that's what happens in, in duct work. The return tends to be dirty. Then if your filtration system is really strong, the supply side of the ducts are fine. So if the filter is doing what it's supposed to be doing and collecting the dirt, and it's generally not that harmful.

We recommend, um, you know, treating the whole home, which is tightening up that home, uh, making sure that new air isn't coming in, uh, or it's coming in controlled. We're filtering it. It's coming into the duct work, and we're, we're controlling the process.

So now, if you have the windows open, all bets are off. You know, we, we can't really control that, so. Right. Everything comes in through the window. You got every, every, everything else is all sealed up tight as a tick. Uh, but, uh, yeah, this is the time of year when you wanna be, y- you know, you wanna be kind of airtight if you possibly can.

Yeah, yeah. If that's what you're looking for. And then, and then you wanna measure things. People, people, uh, say that, "Oh, the house can't be too tight. It shouldn't be too tight. A house needs to breathe." So, um- ... we, we don't really believe that. Uh, that's kind of a myth. What we wanna say is we want control over the house. We wanna control the heat loss. We wanna control the air leakage.

Then from there, we can control the humidity in the home, whether we need to add humidity or remove humidity, and then we can really measure the fresh air in the home.

We can, um, monitor that and say, "You know what? We need a system to bring in fresh air." And they can be simple. They can be a bath fan that can, uh, draw on the home, and then the air comes in. We can kinda guess where the air comes in, or we can, uh, maybe pipe a duct right to the return system and control the air coming in, and then it'll get filtrated into that system. So that's a simple, uh, way to control and, and bring in some fresh air. Um, and so it's all, uh, it's all kind of what the, what the client wants. Some people don't really care about, uh, indoor air quality. Some people aren't home enough to really care. They should be caring about where they're, where they're spending their workdays and things like that. So it all depends on what the goals are of the client. How do you feel about electrostatic air cleaning?

Um, you know, there's a lot of different s- uh, devices like that. I, I feel like those have kind of, uh, maybe moved on to, you know, uh, something new. I mean, there's, um,

UV light, which you'll, uh, uh, create, um, kind of similar setup. I don't know if that would classify in the same, um, category, but it- Does that produce ozone? Is that the- Well, that's one of the concerns.

Yeah. You wanna make sure and look at the data- Um, I won't list any names here of pros or cons, but you wanna make sure the UV light is not creating ozone, and that's one of the interesting things of life, right? We want ozone way up there in the sky, uh, 'cause we don't want it to be... have less ozone or that causes problems for the humans down on Earth and... but we don't want ozone on the ground 'cause ozone is, um, bad for, uh, the lungs and, and people with, uh, breathing ailments. So that is a phenomenal question, and that is, that is something that you wanna do your research on and make sure that you're not using a device that creates ozone in the home. There's a lot of conversation about this during the summer when we had the c- uh, Canadian wildfires, and people are trying to figure out how to, how to deal with the smoke smell in the house. Yes. Yes. And, uh, I think, uh, just yesterday I saw an article that said that these wildfires, maybe we don't have them so much here, but out in the West they're getting a lot of the wildfires, that this outdoor air issue is similar to smoking seven cigarettes a day. Whoa! Yeah. That's, that's if you're involved or if you live in an area that that's happening. So this, this is... If we see them come up more and more, you know, you can debate why it's happening, if it's lack of wildlife or, uh, forestry management, or if it's something else, uh, that's causing these forest fires. That's something to be concerned with, and that's another reason to wanna tighten down your home, control the airflow that's coming in, uh, and filtrating the air that, that is in. So as an ex-smoker, I will tell you that, you know, uh, you know, seven was a great number back in the day, but now I don't want that seven anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. So I've never smoked a cigarette in my life directly, but boy did I smoke them as a kid. Yeah. Five packs a day in the house. Right. You're... Well, you're a smart man for never taking them up. Well, I had the experience, you know, of listening to my mom coughing all night- Yeah ... and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, a- and I'm amazed at how many people are smoking again these days. Yeah. I just see it everywhere, especially with the young people. Yeah. You would think that anybody would know better. And, and I don't have any... I... Right, and that and vapes. I don't have any, uh, I don't have any data on vapes or how the vaping is, is, uh, you know, gonna affect the indoor air quality and what filtration systems will work on that. But ho- I guess we wanna just say vape outside, you know? Mm-hmm. And respect your family and loved ones and friends that are indoors.

All right. Well, uh, we wanna control your environment, uh, starting with your house, and the way to do that is with a call to Wise Home Energy, as we, uh, wrap up the show today. Give them some contact information and a s- departure point. Yeah, wisehomeenergy.com, area code 585-270-5836.

You can, uh, call or text. Um, we will, uh, open to a free no-cost consultation where we just tell you a little bit about our process. You tell us a little bit about your goals, and we see if there's a, a match there. Sounds like a winner. Jeffrey Flaherty from Wise Home Energy. Thanks for, uh, being on the program today. And thank you to the listener. Uh, get the podcast of this if you, uh, missed part of it. WYSL1040.com. We'll see you next time.