Why Your New Furnace Didn't Fix Anything

This podcast is brought to you by Open Door Mission, restoring hope and changing lives. opendoormission.com. Hello and welcome. It's another episode of the Wise Home Energy Show here on, the Voice of Liberty with Jeff Flaherty. Pure energy. And here he is.

Without further ado... Hey, Bob. Thank you for having me. back. Always a pleasure. It's fall already. Yes. And at Wise Home Energy, you've got to be rubbing your hands with anticipation. Oh, my goodness. Lots of folks with issues that have to be addressed. Yeah, they're calling. They're, uh, they're wanting to get it, they're wanting to get it' fixed, and this is a good time to want to get it fixed because if you wait until it's broken, then it becomes an emergency, and you don't want to do. that.

No. Be proactive. That's right. That's right. I wanted to talk about some news stories. Well, maybe at least one. I mean, well, there's two. The... I saw some news stories recently that said, uh, the New York State, uh, independent service operators are saying we are going to have, uh, a production problem over the next couple, five years.

Um, and so that's a problem which is interesting because the utilities, uh, deliver the, uh, energy, the fuel to your home, uh, but they don't produce it. They separated it' some years ago and, uh, these organizations are kind of, uh, controlled by, uh, these government entities, whether they' be the Public Service Commission. And, uh, so we, uh... I think we've taken some coal plants offline, and these coal plants are emergency, uh, a peak demand.

So, um, this is some of the problems with people that create policy, whereas, uh, myself as a business owner, if I make bad policy, I, I experience a really bad pain. Mm. I have immediate feedback that I made a bad decision, whereas sometimes, uh, policymakers and politicians, if they' make a bad decision, they' just move on' to the next martini bar- ... and they don't really get, uh, the payment and the pain of that. bad decision. So- Many cases they don't have to move on to the next martini bar because that's where they are anyway. That's right. They can stay right. there, right? Yeah.

And, uh, so I, I wish, um, you know, the folks that, uh, maybe make the policy would listen to the people that' really understand it, and I would think the, the New York State, uh, independent service operators, they have to forecast out and they see the demand coming.

Uh, we have some hotter summers we, we see. And, and in the past, we used to call AC a, a luxury in these parts 'cause you, you needed it down south but maybe not up in New York, and now it's, it's becoming more, uh, mainstream, mainstream and more of a necessity. And, and so there's more AC, and, uh, people are, uh, using more electric. So I wish they would look at that. And then locally, Ontario County has put out a, a warning saying, "We're gonna have some problems." We have...

They have a lot of land, and they have a lot of new builds coming, and they say with this new build, they've said, "No more gas." They're saying, "We have an infrastructure problem that we're not going to be able to, uh, keep up with the electric demand." So- Kind of makes you scratch your head, doesn't it? Because weren't they telling us, uh, "Oh, all we need is renewable energy, and, uh, and that's gonna make it, uh, cheap and plentiful, and it's gonna fix all of our problems"? It really does. Uh, you would think... You know, sometimes

I feel like it's the lobbyists are selling something that somebody wants to sell. Uh, hopefully a, a scientist comes aboard, but somewhere we need a guy who, uh, gets stuff done or a lady who gets stuff done who's on the ground who says,

"Wait, wait a minute. You know, this is gonna take some time. This is gonna take some other pieces of the puzzle to properly do this." And so come January 1st, you can't, uh, build a new built home and, and install gas.

So these are... Uh, for every action, there's a reaction, and, uh, it's, it's really just something that, uh, we, we... I wish we had more accountability amongst, uh, the policymakers and the politicians. Doesn't that make you crazy? Because, you know, and I mean, not to, not to venture into the world of politics here, but, you know, when you get these faceless bureaucracies, these people are not elected. Right. But we have no input into, into their decisions, and so there's no means by which we can say, "Oh, we're not gonna vote for these people next time"- Yeah ... and, uh, make them accountable.

It's not possible. Right. And, and, and the, when the ones, the policymakers who are the politicians, uh, you know, I've heard stories. from people I know that their decision-making process is not always what's best for the constituent.

It's, "What's gonna get me the vote next year?" Mm. Mm-hmm. And that's, that's a problem and, and probably we need to go back to that, uh, mentality from a couple hundred years ago that the farmer left the farm to go serve for a couple years and, uh, or some type of accountability 'cause you can make these bad decisions, and, uh, you just have, no pain whatsoever, so hopefully- That's what the Europeans are finding out with, uh, you know, with, uh, the European Union over there. Uh, it, it... You know, people in Brussels really don't care what's happening in Northamptonshire, uh, or in Belfast.

Yeah. Uh, so yeah. What, what do you do about it? And they're trying to shake all that' stuff off now. And, these, these knots are e- not easy to untie. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. We, uh, we, gotta get to the boots on the ground and, and, and what's, what's good for the... You know, all politics is local, right? What's, what, what makes sense for your particular region may be totally different what makes sense for another, uh, region. So, uh, hopefully something changes on that front. I, I received a, uh, RG&E bill the other day, and, uh, normally

I don't, um, get bills in the mail unless I forgot to pay the bill. You know, with all this online stuff, sometimes you just... I d- I forget to, to clock in and get it and... But this one was an actual bill, and, uh, I opened it up, and it said, um,

It talked about daylight savings and, and that the day-night meter would change. And, and I'm reading it, and I was a little concerned because I've seen people say, "Oh, these new, new smart meters are day-night meters." And how a day-night meter works is, um, you sign up for it, and that's what I was nervous about. Did I... Am I automatically enrolled?

And, and so from 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM, you have one rate. I think it's gonna be a higher rate than y- what you would normally pay, and then the off hours you have a lower rate. So, um, I heard about them years ago. I don't know if they were a thing in this area, but it was, it was meant to do, you know, do your laundry at night, do your dishes at night, and it spreads out the, the load. Uh, so f- this is big for electricity because we, we can get these peaks and, and we can have rolling blackouts. So it's encouragement for people to, uh, that maybe if they're charging cars overnight or doing things like that, they could, uh... And you can even set these smart hot water heaters to, to run overnight and, and, uh, ramp up and, um, you know, operate, uh, more, uh, time efficiently. But I was a little nervous because I, I thought, "Did I...

Am I enrolled in this? I better not be," 'cause I've been telling people these smart meters aren't doing that automatically. You have to enroll. So there was a phone number. I, I sort of wanted to call. I looked online. I couldn't see how the rates work. Um, but then it said they had an app, and I'm like,

"Hey, I like apps, I guess," 'cause I can't really get in online. And so I went to download the app and, you know, it says punch in your account number and, um, it didn't really seem to work. So if anybody from RGE or NYSEG wants to call Isome Energy and walk me through this, I have- Or call the radio station 'cause I'd kinda like to know too. Yeah.

Uh, yeah. W- I didn't vote for any kind of day-night meter. No. I didn't, this... I didn't see some box to check on my bill. Well, you can call up and get on that. And so that was the good thing in, in, um... You know, there was an 800 number, but, uh, you know, there... I just find that the usage is so, uh, difficult to access. Uh, so when we go to do energy audits, we, we need the bill, and, uh, usually my communication says I need the bill. Well, now with this online stuff, they'll give you graphs and, and people will send me, you know, uh, pictures of their graphs, and it's kinda like me saying, "Can you send me a picture of your dog?" And then they send me a picture of the dog food. It's not really... It's close, but it's not quite relevant.

Uh, and, and we need that graph, and we need the usage, and, um, it, it seems like they made it harder and harder for the customer to get. And we're on our phones, which is a different platform than our computer, and, uh... So I wish they would, um, clean it up. That's gonna be one of my, uh, my causes, to, to kinda get these utilities to print this stuff on bills and make this stuff, uh, much easier, uh, so that customers know what, uh, what they're using and, uh- I'm telling you, it's the mushroom theory.

Yeah. You know, throw poop on them and keep them in the dark. Oh. I, I, I understand. I thought, I thought you were implying the utilities were on mushrooms, Bob. I didn't know what we were talking about.

No, but well, that, that could be a distinct possibility. Okay. No, but I think it's, uh, more, I think it's more reasoned and more, uh, yeah, calculated than that. It is. It's, it's, uh, no accident, uh, produced by hallucinogens. It is. I, uh, you know, to shift gears, I, uh, uh, went to a home the other day and, uh, uh... Well, actually our, uh, one of our auditors went to a home, and he had an uncomfortable second floor. And, and we got up there and, and the attic is not air sealed, and it's got a bunch of insulation in it. And, uh, uh, uh, my, my rep shows me, he said the bath fan is, is unvented. It's hanging there. It was, it was probably vented at one time, but it was a zip tie and it didn't hold. So he tells the client, many clients don't go climb in the attic with him and, um... But he also, uh, noticed that the ridge vent wasn't cut. So what happens is the roofers put this ridge vent, which is a, um, a pre-made device that has a vent on the top of it, but there's one little install, um, process that you have to do, is you have to cut open the roof. You have to cut the sheathing open- ... so that the air comes out. So it's a decorative, uh, uh, roof vent. This one apparently is. And so I think, you know, I, I just don't know what happens ethically where the guy says or the lady says, "Well,

I have to vent by code, so I'll put this up and everybody'll think it's there." Uh, so kind of a costly thing to go remove that and cut it. And, uh, we ended up sort of... Somebody must have just recently vented the bath vent 'cause he said, "Well, I called this company and they came over and they said it's fine." And

I said, "Well, here's our timestamped geotagged picture of the vent." Uh, so they either reattached it 'cause they were the ones who installed it or, uh, they didn't actually climb up there. But he started going back and forth with us, "Hey, I got three other quotes and, uh, we were gonna remove the ins... Oh, you can take that out, and you can take that out."

And, uh, by the time I got done, I said, "Well, we're, we're actually, we're gonna walk away. This is... We're not, we're not in alignment. Um, our goals and your goals, uh, are not in alignment. You, you want this done as, cheap as possible."

And, you know, my experience is, uh, price wins bids, but it rarely solves problems. Uh, so if you go chasing down that, uh, price rabbit hole, what, how, what are we getting for apples to apples? And usually we're, we're not getting that. And, and that's where we're doing things like the blower door test, where we're measuring the amount of air that leaks out of the home. So, uh, not every, not every person is, is gonna be a good fit for us.

Um, it's just, it's the nature of the beast. We wanna fix homes. We don't just want to install things and collect money. Um, those are parts of the puzzle. We have to install things and collect money, but w- in order to, in order to fix homes, we, we, uh, we, we have to design it properly and install it with, uh, a certain improvement in mind that we can actually measure.

So- Uh, that way you don't get callbacks. Yeah. "Hey, the whatcha doogie's not working." Yeah. We don't want the callbacks. Um, you know, I went to a, a home this week and, uh, the gentleman, uh, said he climbed up into his attic and saw some, uh, some mold-like substance or that's what we call it. We don't know it's mold until it's been tested. And, and you know, I said, "How long have you lived there?" And he said, "Uh, nine years, and I haven't been up there, but when we bought the house, we had, um... There was some mold and, and it got remediated." And usually this happens in a real estate transaction and, and, and I c- I can't say that

I fault any real estate person, but they, they go to a, a mold remediator. And I'm not certified. I, I've, I probably will someday become certified, but I call it the magic spray paint. Usually they're spray painting, uh, kind of a white or a brownish, depending on, the company, over the roof deck. I don't know if they clean it first.

I don't know. But they tell you, "Oh, this'll stop it." And, um, they don't solve the moisture problem. So mold is created with, uh, food and moisture and the right temperature and, uh, uh, if you don't get, rid of the moisture, um, it'll come back. Uh, it's just a, it's just a natural fact of life, similar to the mushrooms in the dark, uh, room, right? Yeah. Swatting that house fly. "Oh, okay, I fixed my house fly problem." Yeah. And, uh, so- that' frustrates me, you know? And, he noticed that, his bath fan wasn't vented, and he sort of had a lot of discoloration. And it's like nine years ago, if they would've fixed the, the moisture source, that would've been a long-term solution for him. And, and it's a tricky home. It's a hip roof, so there's no gables, and that's two or a four-foot slope. So up in the attic, people try to vent those, and it's not vented properly and, and it, it's gonna be a process. He's gonna move forward with us, and, um, we didn't do a blower door at that time, but we'll go back, do the blower door, do the fix, redo the blower door, and we'll be able to concrete show that person, "Here's what air leakage reduction we have."

Um, and, and he had some ice dams. Now, he's gonna have probably a little snow melt because he's got some skylights in some awkward spots, but we're gonna be able to dramatically, uh, improve it. And, uh, I think a lot of companies probably would've walked on this job because it's, it's sort of a difficult, uh, design and, um, it's... You know, anybody can go throw stuff up there and who's ever going to look in their attic?

These are... It's funny the terminology when we say attics. Uh, many people we call up, we go, "We're gonna need to enter your attic," and they say, "Well, I don't have an attic." O- okay. "Do you have a little hatch in a ceiling?"

Um, and they'll say, "Oh, I have a crawl space." And it's like, okay, we, we have a terminology issue in the industry-

... because I guess it's called that 'cause you crawl. So, um, so do you... I should say, do you have a crawl attic? You know, so you- ... we call the crawl spaces underneath the home, where you crawl under there. Uh, but for us, anything is, uh, any space between the, uh, ceiling of your living space and the roof, uh, is typically a space that we would call that an attic. And, uh, the only time you wouldn't have that is maybe on a cathedral ceiling where the roof and the, the ceiling, you're in the same space. So, uh, attics are big. Most people don't climb in them. We're usually the first person who's climbed in them, uh, you know, aside from the electrician or, uh, the pest remediator that goes in the home. But, um, those areas, uh, we wanna climb in there. W- uh, we wanna do it, right. And so what we find is people get it done.

They're told... They're upgraded, and they're told, "Hey, it was done right." Uh, and no one ever goes back up there. And then, and then the, flaw is slow, so the, the moisture, mold, or the ice dam. Ice dams only show up in the, the heart of winter. And, and so they don't really know it was done wrong. There's no, uh, there's not a plethora of, uh, experts around there that can tell them, "Well, this is done wrong. Here's the science on it. Here's the testing on it." And so we're, we're sort of like a unicorn. I don't re- You know, I don't know how many people remember the old Munsters, but sometimes, uh, I feel like we're the Marilyn of the home performance industry. Uh, we look out of place, uh, to, to everybody else. And, and we hear that a lot with, with sizing of equipment. You know, we, uh, we, we lose bids because they tell us the other two people, um, have a, a different size furnace. And we had one recently. We were gonna, we were gonna install a bigger one 'cause she was demanding it, and I told my rep, "Just plead with her to let us do what we do best." And at the last minute, she let us do the, do the size we wanted. And it...

And I'm so thankful because I didn't wanna install it, uh, because it's not gonna help. She had a Cape Cod, and that's gonna actually make the second floor worse, uh, the more oversized you have it. And really sizing, going back to that, uh, independent service operators, where, where they're producing, uh, electricity, that's what you're doing. You're sizing and matching the load to the need. Um, you, know, you think about it in, in meals. If you, uh, if you have a lunch and you want a light lunch, you only needed a few calories, and maybe you wanted a, a heartier breakfast and you have more, calories. And that's, you're matching the load to the need, and that's one of the things we wanna do with, um, the HVAC system.

Um- So I take it now that. the, uh, the, the Cape Cod lady took your advice, we' have a story with a happy ending where you don't get callbacks and, they're comfortable in their home because they picked up the phone and they called- 585-270-5836 See what I did there? I like that. The Wise Home Energy Show here, by the way, on WISL-WLEA.

The, uh, the very informed and erudite, uh, voice of Jeff Flaherty telling us, uh, war stories and, and, and just not the, you know, shooting the breeze here, but valuable information in there for you. Y- you know, if you're thinking, "I don't know, maybe the furnace needs to be bigger.

Uh, I don't know, maybe we need new windows. Uh, I don't know, maybe we need more insulation." You know, all the, all the usual concerns that come up and you're trying to figure it out. Yeah.

It, we, um- You know, one of the things, um, that we struggle with on, on competitors is, uh, I had a lady call yesterday, "I got a new furnace and I got all new windows and my home is still cold." And so I look up the home and, and she went through a program and I said, "Well, it looks like your home's a Cape Cod." And she said, "Yes." And

I said, "Well, if this program... Did they do anything upstairs?" And she said, "No, no, they don't, they don't do anyth- They said, the program doesn't do anything upstairs with the, uh," um, I don't know if she said insulation or paneling. So- it's true if you get a Cape Cod with paneling or something that' is hard to insulate, it, might not be a good idea to insulate, but don't say the program won't do it' 'cause then you're giving the person false information. What you can say is, "The budget won't, won't handle it. If you'd like to add to the budget, y- there might be some modifications."

Uh, but just to swap out the furnace and do the basement rim joists, uh, gu- almost guaranteed it's the wrong size furnace, right? And, and I, I asked this lady, "How did you find these people?" And she said, "They door knocked my house." Oh, boy. And I knew, you know, uh, you know, I knew... I know, of a company that does some door knocking and I didn't know they were over in the Rochester area. And, um, and then that's not to say that door knocking, there's anything wrong with that, but what, the sizing of equipment is, is still done probably, I would guess 70% wrong, um, still to this day. Most of the stuff, we go to a home, 20-year-old home, we just say it's 95% chance it's the wrong size furnace. And-

Usually meaning too big. Too big is really the problem. No one ever makes them too small. And what happens with it' is the size of the furnace and the air conditioner is not based off the square footage of the home, and it's not based off of the unit that's in there. That was designed by somebody who, didn't know, what they were doing. It's based off of the energy loss, the heat loss of the home, which is done by insulation, marking down all the insulation levels, marking down the windows, and then in a perfect world, a blower door test to measure the leakage, and then it goes into a, a calculator to derive what the size should be.

So if your HVAC, um, contractor doesn't climb into your attic or check your insulation levels, how, how could they possibly know what size equipment to have? They're just using an estimated guess, and it's generally not that good. It's based off of what is sitting in your basement. So that's the type of stuff that, um, we really enjoy, 'cause when we go and fix those homes and properly size the equipment, it, it makes for a quieter system, it makes for a more evenly, uh, running system, which provides even temperatures throughout the home.

Um, it's-- and then it's... and then you get better energy usage because the problem with a high efficiency furnace is there's the thought process that, uh, a high efficient furnace is gonna save you money. Well, go get a canoe and put 150 merc on the, uh, back of it and it's just not gonna ride real well. In fact, it might sink. Um, so it's just not matched up to the home. And that, those are. the, um, those are the skill set and, the d- design, uh, uh, skills that, we, bring to, the table. And you don't have to do everything at once, but, we wanna educate people on what their home is doing currently and how we can, um, you know, get them on a path, you know, if they wanna stay there' to, to make that much more efficient and, more comfortable. And, it, uh, the, system works.

Uh, one of the challenges we have is we offer the no cost energy assessment, and the state has made that, uh, more complicated as we go.

And sometimes people want that, and it's, it's, just to find out what's wrong. And I sorta don't even need to go out to the home to find out what's wrong. You could take a few pictures, and I could tell you all that. And, and recently we had a, a person get online and write us a negative review because we didn't turn around and get the report back to them in time, and I think our rep, you know, goofed up and, and... But to go and w- write a negative review for something you never paid for, uh, that' probably lost us money, um, it, it sorta has been a little shock to me saying,

"Well, maybe we can't... maybe we gotta screen a little better." Because literally, I can do this remotely. I can, I can get your energy bill,

I can look at' your house, and, short of doing a blower door test, if you give me certain pictures, I can tell you how to fix your home. Uh, but to go out and send somebody out to do two or three hours, then to bring them back and do the paperwork for two or three hours and have the state pay us, you know, two or two fifty is, is, is kind of a loss. So we advertise that, no cost assessment.

Uh, but what happens is the opportunity cost of life is now if we're just doing somebody who wants the energy audit, we've, we've removed our skill from somebody who wants to fix their house. Right. Right. And, that's more...

That's a better use of our time, especially when I can do this remotely. Well, it makes you wonder, why would somebody just want the audit? I, it, it's- We, uh- ... it's kind of like meaningless information. Yeah, we advertise it, you know, and, the state advertises it.. You can get the free energy assessment. I thought there would be a reason why you'd want it. You know, you're not- You would think you'd wanna fix something ... you're not comfortable in your home, as like you say. Yeah. Yeah. So usually we're, we're giving them a list of things we wanna see what, uh, what' they' wanna fix. So high energy bills, you know, people say, uh, high energy bills. Well, bills have been going up and, you know, the state You know, says with their data you can save 10 to 40%. We, we, know, we can save more if we do a real robust job on a home that, you know, is built of Swiss cheese, um- Yeah ... and has an oil boiler. Uh, so, we know, we can do more than that, but that's what the state says and, and, and then we have the rates keep going up.

So think of what the next 10 years are, are going. If anybody believes that the rates are gonna go down, um, I just... I would bet them that the opposite is gonna happen. They're gonna go up.

So, um, we'll still deal-- we'll still do the as- we'll still doing the assessments and we advertise it, but, um, we don't want you to, take advantage of our knowledge. You can take advantage of our knowledge by reviewing our website or our YouTube channel or listening to this show because there's lots of, uh, tidbits of, of how to, uh, properly, uh, improve your home and make it more comfortable. Um, so yeah, I don't wanna dissuade people from calling us, but, uh, we, we'd like to fix homes. That's the fun thing we do. We get called, you know, just like from the lady who just got the new furnace and the new windows. You know, we can go diagnose that for her.

I hate to go in and say, "Your furnace is oversized and it's a year old." You know, it... but that's... you know, some can say that's my opinion.

Um, you know, you know how science is. We all say it's proven, but I guess the proof is on the coldest day of the year. If your equipment isn't running, uh, 80,

90% of the hour, then it's generally oversized. If it's running- And if you're falling over when you open the energy bill, every month then- Right. Exactly. Exactly. Not a good sign. So but yeah, we still offer all these incentives. Um, i- the time is now to call.

Uh, winter's coming soon and, and, we get booked out quite a bit, uh, for installs and, and, and for HVAC and for insulation. So the time is, the time is now if you're really looking to fix a problem from last year.

Uh, we, we really have a discussion with you about what you're looking to fix. We can, we can talk some rough budgets over the phone. You know, if it's not, if it's not in your wheelhouse, that's fine too. Uh, but at least we can give you some rough ideas, come out to the home, do the assessment, uh, and let you know, you know, how, how we'd fix it, and we can show you case studies of really something just like your home that we've done. We fixed it and the, the clients are happy, and they're going online writing the reviews that they're happy. So- So just for, for clarity, you do also install equipment.

We do. You're not just a diagnostic company. Right. We do. And, and that's some of the challenges. I always get nervous. We provide that proposal after the assessment, and they think it's a work specification and they go shop it, and then someone tweaks it and, and doesn't air seal it. We're really...

You know, we've got it, we've got it down to a, a science. Pardon the, pardon the building science pun, but yeah. Well, that's good to know. So tell them who you are and how they get in touch with you. It's Wise Home Energy.

Uh, it's 585-270-5836, or you can hit us on the web at wisehomeenergy.com. Jeff Flaherty, thanks so much. Another informative show, and you've been listening to the Wise

Home Energy Show here on the WYSL, WLEA stations. Thanks for listening. Get the podcast at wysl1040.com.