Scary Tales from the Field: Fraud, Mold, and the Halloween House

Once again, on the WYSL stations, it's time for the Wise Home Energy Show. Starring, of course, our good friend, Jeff Flaherty. Pure energy.

Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters. Supposed to say Jeff Flaherty. there. What's, what's, up? Hey,

Bob. Good to be here. I love the music. It's spooky good. It' is. It's that season. So good. to, to, be, uh, changing. I love the area where we get the change in the seasons and, uh, some cool weather. There's been some wonderful reports of northern lights. I just don't know if I've seen them, but I guess I get to see the pictures online. Well, the funny thing about it is it's, it's, uh, it's hard to see them, with the naked eye.

You can kind of see them, but it's, much better if you take pictures. Your, uh, the eye. in your, cell phone, particularly if you have an Android apparently, from what I'm told, is, uh, is, really good at seeing that, so. Ah, I did not know that. That's good to know. I thought you were gonna say my eyes needed to be open, that, you were, you were implying that. I'm probably sleeping by the time they show up. I think it's true of most people.

I always think of it, "Hey, run up, let's run up. to the lake and take a look at that." But, uh, you know, around that. scary time of the year, I was thinking, you know, what would be a good topic for today is, uh, scary tales from the field. Uh, you know, the, the unwise things we, we, see out in the homes. And, and, we have seen a lot recently, and I guess maybe we do all the time, and, and maybe I should make this a regular part of the program. But a call I got just this week where, uh, a lady was having a problem with her tankless hot water heater, uh, that she had had installed a few years ago.

And, um, she said it was a couple years old and, and, uh, we're a Rheem Pro Plumber partner, so they... she had found us and said, "Will you come service it?" And I said, "Well, we always try to save people money. Can you send us over some pictures first?" So she sent over a picture of the model ta- um, number, and then she sent over the quote.

And you know, first we had said, "Well, why doesn't the company come in and work on it that installed it?" And they said, "Well, they don't, they don't service it. They're not plumbers."

So- What? You know, that's, that's one thing I would caution, and this is a big, big, big company that operates in multiple cities. Um, so I was kind of shocked at that. So I got the quote and I said, "Well, this is a Rinnai, um, tank. This isn't a Rheem tank." And, uh, she said she called up the company and, and, uh, really gave them an earful because the quote was different than what was actually installed in the, in the house, so. Something wrong one maybe? Yeah. So i- it's, uh... I don't know. I think,

I think they just maybe sell two and they, whatever they did, but it was kind of strange. But I think, you know, that's a good lesson is if you're gonna go have something installed, like who will service it? I mean, sometimes I buy these things in the stores that you put together. I like to put stuff together, and you open it up and it says, "Do not return this to the store. Call this 800 number to resolve the situation." So that's generally not gonna be the case with a hot water tank. Uh, you're gonna wanna... You're not gonna be able to call a, a, an 800 number.

You really wanna make sure that the company that installs it is going to service it. So that's something we do. We, we service, um, uh, what we sell. So we don't do, uh, a lot of, uh, service on hot water tanks. We'll do service on, uh, heating, um, 'cause typically hot water tanks will, they tend to operate fine. A, a few models, tankless and things will have a few sensors go bad, but usually it's, uh, uh, kind of a set it and forget it. You know, tankless do need some, um, uh, maintenance and especially if it's harder water.

But, but that's just a good, uh, lesson that, you know, you should, you should ask somebody that you're having install something, "Do you service it?" Because who's gonna be around in the next five and 10 years? So. Yeah. And you wanna try to, try to, uh, uh, use somebody local. Yeah. Locally based.

Yeah. 'Cause lot... This is going on a lot. Uh, a lot of these companies have, you know, uh, locations, like you said, in other cities in New York State and el- and elsewhere. Yeah. And a lot of them are not headquartered here. You might think they are. Absolutely.

Yeah. And, uh, that's kind of like the next, um, home we really had the similar situation. Uh, we were working on this lady's house and she said, "Well, I also have this, um, commercial building kind of, um, pole barn type thing," that she added heat pumps by a, uh, another, a very large contractor, and she said her electric was just off the charts. She couldn't believe it that these heat pumps are supposed to be so efficient. And they came in and said, "Well, the insulation's not done right."

And again, we tried to get a lot of pictures. We try to get them to send over pictures first, so we can do some free consulting. Uh, uh, it's easier just in this day and age to, to use the digital technology and get the pictures over. And, and this, uh, client was a little reluctant, and finally we, we just had to, um, charge for a service call and go down and, and inspect the work. And, and what we found is kind of this one story, kind of pole barn setup, but it was insulated and it was gonna be used for, um, kind of a retail, uh, type animal. I, I don't... I forget if it was of, of that or it was more like a daycare type of thing, dog daycare.

And, uh, so the duct work, so it was a ducted system. She thought that they had screwed up and it wasn't a cold climate heat pump. But what really had happened, and we didn't do sizing on it, but there were some insulation flaws, but the duct work goes up into the attic, and the duct work was not sealed at all properly. Whoops. So, so they installed it, and then they didn't really seal it. So I can't say since it's a commercial building that they violated code. I would have to find out, uh, how commercial works. But on residential, um, this would have been, uh, a flag. I can tell you this is not, um, this would not have passed a residential, uh, install to code if it was, you know, ran through code. Um, but that was a couple months ago. Well, she called the other day. It's a, it's a little far out of our service territory, uh, our primary service territory. So she was having problems with the units and she went

And had, um, somebody, uh, locally work on them and it needed a part, and she went to the, the, the HVAC contractor went to the manufacturer of the supply house and s- gave them the serial number and the model number. This is a true story.

And they said, "We can't sell you parts for that. That m- that particular model was supposed to be destroyed." So it was either pulled out on warranty- Gosh ... uh, and so when I asked my rep who went there, he said,

"You know, the dates looked a little older than what she said she had it installed. I thought maybe it was just stuck in their warehouse for a long time." And, and she's, like, asking me, how to, you know, she wants to report them to everybody. I said, "Well, you know, let me think about how you should, you should attack this. You'll attack this with the m- the, uh, contractor, and, then with the, you know, and y- and copy the manufacturer and say, 'I want, I want the track record of where, this model has been.'" Because right now she only has it in verbal. Uh, we' really need to see the written track record that this unit was supposed to be destroyed. I mean, this is not, this is not bad work. This is, this is fraud. Somebody- Yeah. No kidding

... somebody got reimbursed for this unit and then went and installed it? in, in somebody's, uh, building. So it's terrible. So these are the kind of things that we always go back to, that because it says Energy Star or it's considered an energy efficient unit, how it gets installed, by who it gets installed, and how it was designed and sized to that particular building is, is huge.

And, uh, we see these fails, and then what happens is the complaints will be, "Well, that product doesn't work," you know? And it... And that's not the case. The product works. It's just the design and the install were, were terrible. And it's sad to see, and we, you know, we try to help out when we can in, in issues like that.

Um, and it's just the nature of the beast. Uh, we had another home, uh, recently- Quick, before you turn the page. Yeah. What, what, what, what have we learned from this? Yeah. Know who you're buying from. Yeah. Check them out. Uh, there's, there's source, resources you can use online to see what the track record is. Yeah. There's, there's some people out there, uh, that, uh, you gotta watch out for. Yeah, absolutely. And these companies, you know, look it, they're great at, uh, they put booties on, probably just like us, when they walk in the home. They treat the home really clean.

That's an im- you know, uh, and clean up and, and with respect, and that's an important part of the process. But the other important part of the process is, um, is the unit going to do what you expect it to do? If it's just heat and cool, yeah, it probably does that. If it saves you money, nah, this wasn't, this was installed incorrectly and should really have been, uh, corrected by the company. But, uh, I don't know if a year had gone by and they're kind of punting on it. Um, so yeah, it's, uh... So when you look at those reviews online, um, the, "They were great. They treated me with respect, and they got in and out real quick," that's good.

Um, look for the ones that say instant, you know, "Felt the home comfortable instantly. Noticed it on my energy bills instantly. Resolved the moisture issues in my home, uh, i- almost instantly." You know, those are the type of reviews you really wanna see that match up what your goals are. Everybody wants a company to, uh, come into their home and, and, uh, protect their carpets and clean up when they go.

Uh, that's nice, but that's not the stuff that's gonna matter in three and five years, uh, when that equipment, uh, is struggling.

So, um, and, and those are the types of things we do. Uh, we, we just start with that, uh, no-cost assessment with New York State. Uh, NYSERDA has that no-cost assessment. We walk you through the paperwork and come out to the home and do what we hear is a very thorough, uh, inspection. So we know what we do, but we hear it because other people say, "Well, I had somebody else in and, uh, uh, they didn't, they didn't do that, and they didn't do this, and they didn't enter that area." And we're always perplexed how they were able to, um, design a, a work scope without doing the tests or doing the inspections that you need to do. Um, we went to a home, uh, that this past year, uh, where it was a big townhouse... Well, not a big townhouse, but a, a maybe a 20-year-old townhouse, 30-year-old townhouse, cathedrals ceilings, very connected to the other units. So the architects really, uh, I guess

I wish Frank Lloyd Wright was still around. Just boxy, make the square stuff. But the architects that make all these roof interchanges and... So this customer's kind of initial complaint was some ice dams, and he was so interconnected to his neighbors that we couldn't really say, uh, what... You know, we could maybe improve what was going on in his ho- his home, but if he didn't improve his neighbors', the interchanged roof could be the, the cause of the ice and- When you say an interchanged roof, uh, fill us in a little bit on that. What does that mean? So you get those, uh, townhouses that are connected, and then, um, there's, uh, uh, gabled peaks, and then that connects to the, the next door neighbor's garage, and their roof kinda comes down to a valley. So if their melt is here, but it kinda lands right at your front door 'cause of the roof interconnects and, and if you get the ice there, um, it, it could who- We'd have to know exactly where the melt is coming from and, and lots of roof, um, space and, uh, low amounts of soffit. So you get these big valleys. A lot of roof coverage and little gutter area means you can't get a slow melt. You're gonna get a heavy melt, and it's gonna freeze at the, uh, right there at the gutter line. So, um, so the, the other thing is these vaulted ceilings were on a second story, so we're really gonna be, like, a 30-foot high ceiling. And I don't remember if they were 24 on center, which is a lot wider, but my rep said,

"I would not be comfortable sending the crew in there." without a fall net underneath. And, uh, how do you- What, what is that? How do you install that? Well, just it's kinda like the circus trapeze.

Like, if, if someone were to slip in this attic and fall through the drywall, they weren't falling eight feet. Oh, wow. They were falling 30 feet through the foyer. So, and, and, and vaulted is, uh, s- a little different than a cathedral. So a cathedral, the roof and the ceiling are an exact same, uh, alignment. Uh, in between is an insulation level and maybe a baffle. A vaulted has a little bit different of a pitch, so there's a little bit, uh, bigger area to access at the top of the home, and then as it gets down to the soffit, it'll be much smaller. So climbing in there isn't for, uh, you know, the faint of heart, and it, it's really, um, something we would rare- rarely do. Uh, so sometimes you're either talking, uh, drywall removal or some, some, some other options.

And then so the client called up, uh, many months later. Our rep had moved out of the area, uh, so he had left the company. And, and I know we had discussed this with him and, and the guy wanted this taken care of, and, and he kinda decided, "Oh, well, it's my skylight. It just needs some insulation attached to it." And, and we really had to just say, "You know, we're, we're gonna have to back out because it's...

The budget doesn't match what the work scope entails," and I'm not even 100% certain what the goal was. Um, just to add insulation to the skylight or to stop the ice damming? And so that's why we always say know your, um, your goals. So it can't be wishy-washy. Um, was it a comfort issue? He was new to the home.

Uh, but you have to, you have to really know your goals, uh, instead of just kind of, uh, wishy-washy wanting to fix one particular thing.

So, uh, skylights, uh, they're tricky things. They're really holes in your thermal plane, um, that are a thermal weakness, and so they needed to be treated, uh, with a specific, um, uh, application. Usually spray foam was what we like to do, and

I don't even know if we could, we could access four sides of the, the skylight box. So, uh, but it was kinda interesting, you know, what you hear, um, uh, from the rep at the site. I'm not sure, you know, the email communication, but he didn't understand that this was gonna be, um, you know, a tougher job and, and didn't, didn't really lay out or fit his budget. So, uh, that one could've been a scary job because I don't know how you install a fall net inside a residential home. So it sounds, uh, sounds pretty tricky. Sounds more like, uh, something the circus could do or a commercial-

... uh, contractor, so. I, that's why I love doing this show. I learn something every time. Yeah. Uh, you know, i- if you haven't picked up on this, folks, this, this is why these issues are a lot more complex than they used to be. It's no longer just a question of, "Oh, okay, well, we'll just swap one water heater for another. Oh, you know, uh, we're not comfortable in our home, so we'll just upsize the air conditioning or the heat pump or the air conditioner." It's not just, "Oh, well, we're having problems with the skylight, so we'll just drill some holes and squirt some, uh, foam in there." Yeah. Uh, it's, uh...

You know, if, if you're not comfortable in your home, you need to pick up the phone and, uh, you need to call an expert, who would be Wise Home Energy. Yeah. And, uh, your phone number, is?

That's, uh, 585-270-5836. You can, uh, call or text, and really the best, um, approach is really just to have a 15-minute conversation, see what your goals are and, and, um, we'll let you know, if, if that's, uh, you know, something that we can do. Uh, if we can't, sometimes we refer you to someone else.

You know, maybe the, the problem you're having isn't, uh, maybe a home performance problem. It could be something else, so- we'll try to guide you to, you know, another, uh, source for a solution if, if, if need be. But, uh, it's definitely, uh, something you wanna do and, and something you can do, um, you know, not just once in, in the time that' you're in the home. It's not a bad idea to have it done, you know, maybe every two, three years just to double-check what's, what's going on in the home. Um, we ran into a, a, a job recently where my rep came back and showed me, uh, a quote, uh, for a product that, uh, is similar to a, a furnace that' we would carry. So you find out that these, uh, furnace manufacturers, like a lot of industries, uh, they, they're, they're making many of, uh, furnaces that run off the line and they change a little tweak here and then they put a new name on it. So you'll find some, uh, different... Uh, and they kinda maybe categorize them as, uh, value, quality, or premium, things like that, and they have different advertising budgets for those. So he was offering a similar furnace that we offered, a different, uh, uh, brand name but, you know, similar, uh, the same manufacturer. And this customer was in the, the grant program and was gonna get some, some rebate for it, and their cost on their furnace, uh, was $2,500 more than, uh, the furnace that we would charge.

Um, and ours was, uh, what I would say is a, a better quality furnace. So it was kinda like, what? I didn't really ne- see if the whole detail's there, but, uh, I was trying to find out what, what magic sauce do they add with that, uh, um, furnace price. And is that... That's one of the concerns in the grant program is that the prices can be marked up because there are people who are taking advantage of these grants and, and that is, um, a very big, possibility. Um, we, we don't buy into that. Our prices are, um, the same across the line, uh, whether you're in the grant program or whether you're, you're, you're just a market rate customer. So it doesn't... We don't charge you based on what grant you are getting. Um, we just think that's the right thing to do and that's the way, you know, we would want Um, our team members and our team members' families to be treated. It just seems the, the fair way to treat everybody the same. Wow. So much to know. I know, right? It's... Yeah. You're-- And these guys are coming into this, I mean, they're doctors, they're, you know, they run car repair shops. They, you know, what-whatever they do for a living, they're professors at the college, and y-you have no idea what's going on. Yeah. It's, it's why it's so important for you to have a home comfort guy. Yeah. You know, you got a doctor, you got a lawyer, you got a dentist, you got a, a stockbroker. Uh, you need to have a home energy guy that you go to and you say, "Jeff, here's what the problem is.

What do you think?" Yeah. We, uh, we had another one th- similar to that where he had, for the past eight months, has been in negotiations, and it shouldn't be a negotiation, uh, with one of our reps, and actually our, uh, one of our managers took over the job.

And he called me up saying, you know, "Your, your rep has stopped getting back to me, and he's not responding." And, and, uh, I suddenly looked at the house or looked at all the pictures and, and I'm like, the house was very, very difficult.

And when I reviewed it with the rep... Well, first he sent me the customer, and I use that term loosely because there's been no payment, so it's not really a customer yet. We're in the cons- consulting phase during the initial energy assessment. And, uh, he had shot down almost every proposal that my rep had given him. And, uh, you know, he-here is the guy complaining, but he is like, "Well, that doesn't need fixing.

I already did it." Well, and, and it's hard to be, you know, polite and say, "Well, you did it, but you didn't do it to our standards or the state standards, and it's not gonna perform. And if you're moving toward a heat pump, the insulation levels that you have set up are not going to work." And we know that, and we... And, and so we had real-really coddled them. We had gone a little too far and, and so really, it's, it's kinda one of those things where, where we're probably... We, we like to be nice. We like to be, uh, uh, professional with people, but really, we're gonna give you a proposal and then if there's a lot of modifications after that, we're probably gonna get into a design consultation fee, uh, because we just, you know...

The analysis paralysis is, is free on their part of the client, but it, it costs us, uh, to keep, you know, modifying these and, and, and wasting hours when there maybe we're, we haven't created the education. You know, he's just not kinda listening or absorbing what we're telling him.

So, uh, that's a tough one. I mean, I look at the house as like, oh, you, you've got a lot of strange things going on. A two-foot crawl space. All the ducts are under there.

They're not sealed properly. If we go to insulate it, we'll have to climb over the ducts and probably disturb them. So we'll make them worse. So who owns that? There's so much planning on this, uh, type of work, and you really wanna rely on the, the professional. Know the professional skill set, um, know what their warranties on their work are, and then let them, you know, present the appropriate, uh, proposal for you. And, and really my last one, um, is kind of on a national level. Um, uh, just kind of stumbled into th-this one. I've heard a few, uh, mold, um, lawsuits and so there's one coming forward, uh, that's about to go through the courts where this, uh, couple is suing the largest home builder in the US. Um, they moved into their home, and within eight months, the wife became bedridden. Now this is down in Texas and, um, they just started doing research and, uh, brought in a mold, uh, inspection company and this thing, uh, doesn't have any water leaks. This is just humidity-based, uh, ambient moisture that is leaking into the home, and then it couples with a poor design and a poor install, it looks like, of a heating and cooling unit in the ductwork.

And as the ducts move through the home, they're disconnected and they're pulling this moisture, um, in, in moving between hot and cold surfaces, and they're creating all this mold in the interstitial cavities between the first and second floor. And then some of the pictures I saw were, um, you know, of the, a ceiling mold and, and so the... He said, the dogs were becoming sick. And, this house, I don't know the value of this house, but I would guess this house, is

700,000 to a million dollars. Wow. And his claim is that, um... And so. the company has been sold a few times, and h-his, his, his claim is that' there was one project manager managing

21, uh, homes being built at the same time, so the oversight, it's all subcontractors, and what are the standards? So a couple of the, you' know, quick things I saw is the furnace and air conditioner are in the attic, so they're in the unconditioned space, which is always dangerous.

Uh, the ducts don't appear to be, um, uh, s- connected properly. And then, uh, is it? sealed? Uh, there's about... I didn't see any test results on the ductwork being sealed.

Um, but this is... That, that state apparently has really no code or code inspections. Uh, New York, um, I can't speak to, um, the code inspections. We do require a blower door test here, and we, we are mandated to test the duct leakage and have it below if it's without, in, with its outside the thermal boundary. So that can be an, exterior wall or an attic or a crawl space that is not within the conditioned space.

So most builders have opted to shift and make sure all those ducts are inside, so the leakage is to the inside of the space.

Um, so hopefully we're a little better here, but there's a little concern that do the code officials mandate the code testing?

And then who are the builders using for their third party Uh, inspection. And sometimes that third-party inspection, um, what I found is maybe it's the builder's, uh, nephew went and got a, a certification.

Ah. Uh-huh. So, so tho- those are just some... That'll be interesting to see what that, um, what that court case, uh, un- unfolds. And, and he almost made it sound like it goes to the subcontractor. So, uh, you really wanna test and, um, you know, some of these tests are no cost, some we do charge for.

Um, you know, what I will say is, uh, you know, use a reputable firm. Uh, if you're not within our area, uh, you know, search them out. If you're in our area, give us a call.

We, we also, uh, we have access to other grants. I wanna tell you about a, uh, a grant program that we're involved in. I think, uh, there's maybe seven contractors in the state, and maybe we're one of three locally, and it's called, uh, it's a NYSEG RG&E, uh, insulation rebate. And, uh, uh, it's, um, air sealing and insulation.

Uh, we have to put it through a little calculator of what we're doing. Uh, but you can get up to $2,000, uh, instant rebate for a gas, uh, heating home. If it's an electrically heated home, they'll, uh, offer you a $1,000 instant rebate.

So this can, this can make some of these projects very, very cost-effective. Uh, so it's certainly worth calling. Uh, we try to access... We try to find out what the home needs. That's our first step. Find out what the home needs. See what rebates are available in your specific area. So they can be statewide, NYSERDA, they can be local utility. Um, so we look at all those things. There's sometimes there's even small local grants that, um, are affiliated to the town.

Uh, we can't double-dip, uh, with NYSERDA or the utilities unless they have told us, so we're gonna, we're gonna play by the rules. Uh, we're gonna do the same thing when we're up in your attic. We're gonna play by the rules.

So, uh, give us a call and- Limited time on these programs? Uh, so that one we don't know. That's a pilot, but they do change the rules quickly. And, uh, even to that gentleman that, uh, eight months ago, they changed the rule and we had to say, "Well, your rebate is $1,000 less." And he was, he was upset, but he sent me 11 pages of text messages that he had been communicating with my rep. And I'm thinking, you know, it's not our fault that your, your project's delayed. It's, it's a little bit more of your fault of denying every proposal we put in front of you, so. This is the same guy who has the, uh, the, the nightmare situation? Yes. Yeah. He does have the scary home. It, it should, uh, qualify for a Halloween house. He should decorate it up for sure.

So, um, so yeah, so those are some of the, the scary tales we see when, um, the project isn't, um, analyzed for what the home needs and designed thoughtfully about, uh, energy, health and safety, and building durability. And so those are the things that Wise Home Energy does. We've been doing that for 14 years and, uh, I encourage people to take a look at our reviews.

They're, uh, on Google. They're, uh, well-written, uh, in regards to the actual results of the work, so. Lot of scary stories here.

Absolutely. Yeah. Heading into, heading into October and, uh, early November. Then we have the scary election right after that. Yeah, right. Absolutely. And we didn't even get to that. No. All right. Well, a- always a pleasure. Uh, Jeff, uh, Flaherty from

Wise Home Energy, The Wise Home Energy Show. Uh, give them that contact information, Jeff. Sure. It's 585-270-5836, or you can contact us on the web at wisehomeenergy.com.

Don't be scared in your home. Give him a call. Pick up the phone. Wise Home Energy. Thanks for listening.