What Home Buyers Don't Check (And Pay For Later)

This podcast is brought to you by Open Door Mission, restoring hope and changing lives. opendoormission.com. Well, hello, one and all. Behold, it's another edition of the Wise Home Energy Show here on, the WYSL, WLEA stations. Pure energy. And our host with the most is Jeff Flaherty. Once again, Jeff, welcome. Bob, thank you for that introduction.

It's, uh, getting to that cold time of the year again. Oh. Oh, has it? I hadn't noticed. I was walking around in shorts and sandals. That explains it. I love it. I've been so chilly.

I, I... Okay. It' is nice. I enjoy it, uh, a lot. And, uh, you know, but the challenge is people, uh, have to heat their homes, and so some people have it cold in, their homes and, uh, that's something that, uh, we want to address. So they're cold in their homes and they haven't picked up the phone? They should pick up the phone. Oh. We should, we should have them call 585-270-5836. I don't know if we've ever gotten the number out that quick, but

I think that was a good time to- Good plan. Yeah ... to do that. Um- Sell early and often, as we say. That's right. I, uh, had a call recently, Bob, from, uh, a gentleman. Maybe it' a- it? was actually an email, and it. said, uh, "My furnace has died, and, I don't have any money because I just bought this home." And the address. was there. I looked up the home. It was, uh, uh, about $285,000. And the pictures online, uh, the realtors do a thing that I call, uh, they' show you the good stuff, and they, they don't take pictures of the bad stuff. So there was no picture of the furnace, but there was a picture of this AC unit outside that looked to be about 30 years old.

So presumably, the furnace was probably the same age. And so, well, that's one? of the challenges I, uh, you find with not having the home inspection, which you, you almost can't get those anymore, but- Right. That used to- be a requirement. Yeah. Remember, you, you couldn't get the mortgage. Yeah. And I f- I s- I really fault the buyer's broker on that. I mean, you can look at. that' furnace. You can pull that cover and get that model number and that serial number, and you can, you can usually get the age of that unit. So when we're talking

20 and 30-year-old pieces of equipment, we probably know that they're going to need to be replaced. I had, uh, uh, one of my nephews was in the house hunting, uh, uh, line of, uh, life right. now and, and called me. and said, "Hey, how much is a new furnace and AC?

We're looking at a house, and this one's really old. Not gonna hold you to it. Just need these numbers for some budgeting." Uh, so he knew, uh, that this was an older unit, um, but apparently this person didn't. And really, I, you know, I don't know the different techniques. I've, uh, have a realtor that is a, a great guy and great friend, uh, but he would consult me. on, "Hey, you know, this piece of equipment is old. You need to plan for this."

I mean, you sort of know that it's gonna need replacement in six days to six years when it's that old. Oh, geez. So, uh, but that's some of the challenges we see with, um, uh, people just trying to figure out their mortgage payments and what they can afford for a house, but they don't think of what they can afford for utility bills a month or what equipment is gonna need to be, uh, replaced and how much that's gonna cost. So that's, uh,

I think that's a challenge we're gonna see more of in these, uh, tough, uh, supply issue times with the housing market. So we would call, this a cautionary tale today? Yeah.

Is that what we're saying? You know, when you're buying a house, don't forget, uh, you don't wanna have a, uh, 1,800 square foot refrigerator. Uh, so y- you gotta consider the HVACR-

Yeah ... just like the roof- That's right ... and like the foundation and- That's right. Well, the nice thing is if you don't have heat, you won't make any ice dams. So there is the plus side of that, but you gotta- Or maybe just- ... make sure you don't freeze the water lines. Yeah.

One really big one maybe. Yeah. It could be. So, uh, and I had another one just this morning email in. Um, he must've been bugging him 'cause it was about 5:00 in the morning and he said, uh, "I, you know, I, I've got crazy high energy bills, $500 a month."

Uh, so when I... You know, the address there, I look up the home, and it just sold four months ago. Um, and the pictures online show a boiler, so when we have a boiler, we don't have easy, uh, central air options. And then I see the diffusers in the ceiling, and, uh, the AC is probably in the attic, which would indicate, um, he mentioned high electric bills. So he's only been there four months, so, um, those are things that I think as you buy a home, you're looking at that mortgage payment, but, uh, what's the difference between 200 a month and 500 a month quickly becomes an extra $3,600 a year. So, uh, that's something that, um, uh, people should keep on' their radar when they're, they're looking at a, a house, is how much is it gonna cost to operate that house, and it's more than principal and interest and taxes and insurance. It should be PITIE,

I guess, is the energy bills. We should put that there. Maybe I can, maybe I can trademark that. Um, so those are the type of calls we're getting. Um, you know, I wanna tell you about another call, or I wanna tell our listeners about another call, is that we had a call, uh, yesterday of someone who, uh, had a heat pump installed in their home, and they were uncomfortable and cold.

And, uh, our rep, uh, was asking some questions, and they've had three energy audits. And I use air quotes, uh, for our listeners, energy audits, because they've had three energy audits, and they have not had a blower door test conducted on their home. So- Wonder what those energy audits were. Yeah. They were just- Maybe salespeople from an HVAC place. I've heard of drive-bys, and they were usually crimes. Uh, but these are drive-by energy audits, and I guess these are crimes too. Um, so i- it's, yeah, it's... If there's no- If you pull up to the, uh, if you pull up to the, you know, the intersection on the off ramp and the guy's holding up the piece of, uh, cardboard that says energy audits, that don't Don't sign up with them. Right. Don't do it ... exactly. Well, I've been thinking of using them in that marketing. I don't know, maybe if you see Wise Home Energy on the corner, that, that might be a good idea.

But so we're gonna go out there and, um, you know, I, I feel s- bad for people like that who's, who, who've been told that they're getting an energy audit, and they really didn't. And then the person who sold them the heat pump, um, never really quizzed them about insulation in their home or their income eligibility, and it sounds like they may be eligible, uh, for some of our insulation, uh, grants. So hopefully we'll be able to go in and tighten up that home and make that heat pump work the way it was designed to work, the way, uh, that person was sold that it was gonna work. It was gonna make them comfortable and lower their energy bills. Hopefully we'll be able to resolve that situation.

Um, but those are some of the challenges that we, we hear and, and it's always after the fact. We always advise, get that energy audit first. Find out what's going on in your home. Get some data. Data is the blower door test. Data is the amount of energy you're currently using or you've used over the last year. It's how much gas in therms, how much electric in kilowatt hours, uh, propane and oil, it's how many, uh, gallons. And, and, and that's related to what temperature you set it at. If you went to Florida and you left it at fifty, you'll probably use less energy than the person who stayed here and kept it at seventy degrees. But we need that data to, uh, accurately predict what the next steps are and what, uh, improvements we can make in the home. So, uh, and, and it can really be done remotely. If you're not in our service territory, we can really , uh, give you a, a, an unbiased, uh, feedback on your energy bills and the type of house you have with a few pictures and a few pieces of data. So don't let our, uh, uh, regionality, uh, fool you or, uh, make you think that you're missing out. We can still give you some, uh, no-cost consultation, uh, over the internet, so. Uh, I saw that RGEE was, uh, moving the meters outside and, and I wondered how that was gonna work. There was an article... They've, they've often done that. They've gone through the, uh, streets, and they'll, they'll move your meter outside, and then some people elect to not do that.

So back in the old. days, uh, before smart meters, they would have to get inside to read that' meter, and some people would elect, "I don't want that moved."

Um, I, would think you, you would want it moved, but- it's... This article seemed to say that they were gonna, they were gonna move all these outside. Uh- Don't they charge for that now? Well, my understanding was back in the day, if you're doing your street, you, sign up, you're getting it for free.

If after that, you would have to, um, pay for that. Right. So I don't-- The article didn't really say. It sounded like maybe RGEE and NYSEG want these meters outside the house now.

Um, but I... It reminded me of a story some years ago. Uh, Mike in our office, a, a building analyst and I were at. a home, and there was a gas leak in the basement, and we' called the utility.

It was a finished basement. It was really kind of squirrely, and it didn't make a lot of sense. This meter was outdoors, but there was also-- there's also a vent pipe outdoors. So a vent pipe, uh, for a gas meter is if there's a little overregulation or, uh, pressure on the regulator, it'll spit out a little gas, and that vent is outside.

And here was the gas meter and the vent pipe outside, and the RGEE tech showed up, and he looked at the meter and he said, "We didn't set this meter here." He said, "We would not have done it like that." And I thought, "Yeah, that makes sense," because they' would've got rid of the, the, um, the vent pipe because...

So I-- we' never really got to the bottom, but we think that the owner was finishing the basement and decided to move his meter outside, which I think is a, a risky, uh, a plan to take. Um, but yeah- ... those are some of the interesting war stories we see out there. I, I always get a kick of when you drive, um, out maybe a little bit more rural area. I always feel like over by Batavia, you'll be driving down, uh, um, thirty-one or five and twenty, and you'll see a house, set way back, and then in the middle of the lawn is this gas meter. I've seen those, yeah. It. always feels like, well, I guess the utility didn't. wanna set that meter way over by the house. I, guess they wanted that somewhere in the middle of, uh, you know, the wiffle ball game, I guess. So I don't know. Some, some people build little dog houses over them. That's a good idea.

I like that. Put little shingles- Yeah ... roof. It always looked funny to me that these things are kind of just sitting in the middle of the lawn. So, um, so I think RGEE is just gonna take them outside the house and put them, you know, near the foundation then. Uh, so that's just something to, to be aware of that, uh... I would want mine outside.

Um, nowadays with the smart meters, I think they're just able to read these things, you know, from, from wherever, so it doesn't really matter. It's just done by, uh... Not sure how the smart meter's done, if it's done over cellular or, uh, what it's done by. It's, it's an RF thing I think. Is that what it is? Yeah. If, if, if you look at the meters, the smart meters, uh, they have what's called an FCC type acceptance number.

Uh, any radio frequency emanating device has to have a unique, uh... I mean, not every mo- every model, not each individual meter. Right. But like, uh, for example, we have all of our stuff is FCC type accepted here. Well, I am grateful that I brought this up because I forgot that I am sitting across from the man, the legend, who would know, all these things, so that's perfect. Just, just, yeah, electric or gas, go look at your meter.

Yeah. Uh, and you'll see FCC ID on' it. I like that. I have, I have seen that and, uh- So they have a transponder inside the truck, and all they have to do really is, like, pull up the driveway or- Yeah ... into the parking lot or whatever, and then, uh, that displays, and then they store it and leave.

Yeah. All right. Now we know, and now our listeners know. That's good news. So, uh, we did see a little change in the electrification, uh, rule of New York State, uh, that, that we're gonna back off a little bit of, uh, mandating

Uh, new builds, I believe, uh, to be electrified 'cause we found out it takes millions of dollars and years of time to upgrade our systems and, uh, we must have forgot to, uh, budget for that, the time-

Hmm ... or the money. So sounds like they're gonna, they're gonna back off that a little bit, which I'm a huge fan of choice. Um, I like energy efficiency, but I think, uh, that people should have a, a choice of what they can heat and cool their home with, so. Yes. Thank you very much. Last I checked, we live in a constitutional republic where, you know, we're supposed to be, you know, uh, self-determining- Yeah ... responsible, uh, citizens and not have a big daddy government, uh, mandate things.

Yeah. Uh, 'cause you know what happens when you don't have choice. Costs go crazy. Huge. Huge. Yeah, and it's just we're, we're, we're human beings. We want free choice. We want the... The minute you start restricting free choice of people, we start to feel a little bit like, uh, caged animals, and we don't, we don't like that. And we, you know, that's, um, that's something that I, I disagree with. I think energy efficiency, we, uh, we all have the ability to make what's, uh, the best choice for, uh, how we live. And so that's hopefully, hopefully that'll stay going forward. The technologies, if we have competition, that'll breed the best technology and, and that'll... We get to all make our own choices for what's best for our homes and our families, so. Just to fill 'em in a little bit, what we're talking about is the January 1st mandate, which was approaching, uh, for every building to be all gas, uh, going forward. No, no other- All electric. Oh, I'm sorry. All electric. Yeah, yeah.

The, the non-gas was what, was what I was really talking about. Uh, that would really eliminate the use of natural gas as a heating fuel. Right. Uh, and what, finally, what happened was, you know, cooler heads prevailed, uh, the cooler heads being in the appellate division- Mm-hmm ... who said, "Wait a minute. Uh, this is, this is actually a physical impossibility-" Yes ... because of the, the condition of the grid.

Yes. You know, everything from transformer pads and transmission facilities, the lines, everything else, there's not gonna be the capacity to do this." It's an, impossibility. Yeah. They're not replaced overnight, and so, yeah, that's the challenge with, government is, uh, when you sign something with a pen, it doesn't mean that, you know, 30,000 people and, uh, $100 million are gonna start mobilizing and correcting the problem. The, the ink is not, uh, dry, and we already know that there's a potential problem with these plans.

Right. Yep. So, uh, so that's good news. I think Bob had a Freudian slip that we're going with the all gas houses. I like that. Sorry about that. Uh- That's a good one. I like that. Uh, non-gas. I would like to do that sometimes, though. I tell you what, all gas would not be a bad idea- It's not ... although I'm opposed to it in principle because people should have choice. Choice.

You want, you want electric? Yeah. Hey, God bless you. Absolutely. Absolutely. We, uh, uh, so one of the things I do wanna mention, it's a great time to check your filter, uh, filters. Uh, we had a customer call that, uh, had a, a furnace in for a couple years and it wasn't working, and naturally it was our fault. Uh, but that filter was so clogged up that it just couldn't breathe. So a good test to do, uh, if it's safely to do at home, is to put your hand over your mouth and cover your nose and see how long you can not, uh, you can hold your breath for, because that's what your furnace is doing when the filter is completely clogged like that, and it, and it starts to struggle just like we would as humans. Uh, and so you have to go check those things and, um, what, uh, what constitutes dirty in your mind may not be the same thing that your furnace, uh, constitutes as dirty.

So, uh, make sure you change that, um, uh, on' a regular basis. And, and each home is different. Each home is gonna, um, clog up, uh, uh, you know, at a different rate. So take a look at that. And, um, just a little bit about the state of the industry.

We're seeing, um, a lot of contractors, uh, really struggling in the energy efficiency business because a lot of the state, uh, income incentives have, have disappeared and we're hearing, uh, some of our trade organizations people, uh, complaining about, um, not having these incentives. And, uh, Wise Home Energy is really, uh, the phone is ringing and the work is coming in because we' have always focused on fixing homes with the proper design and then looking at what rebates and incentives are available. And that has worked, uh, exceptionally well for us, and we're really finding, um, that growth potential. It's, it's exciting for us and, uh, part of me hopes the industry'll clean up a little bit and people will start thinking about air sealing and blower doors and, and things of that nature. And, um, so we, we are hiring. We wanna have controlled growth. We want people that are, um, uh, you know, have the same mindset that the rest of our team has, is to serve the client and give them opportunities to have more comfortable, more efficient homes. So here in studio, we happen to be lucky enough to have our operations manager,

Eric Alles, in the house. Welcome, Eric. Thank you. Thank you very much. So Eric, uh, helps, uh, keep us all organized. We gotta keep... There's trucks and there's fleets and there's, uh, a lot of moving parts and pieces, and he's the guy who kinda, uh, keeps us in line and says, "This is where we need to go." And, and, um, uh, Eric's been on board with us a couple years now, and he's been a phenomenal addition. And

Eric, we're, uh, we're looking to, to hire, right? We're always looking to hire- Always ... but you see a few, uh, you know, a few positions that we're looking for? Or even what are, uh, what are those, those common traits that we're looking for in, in Wise Home Energy, uh, team members? Yeah. Well, we are growing. That's a, that's a great problem to have. And, and as we, uh, continue to grow, we need to bring on great people to the organization and people that, you know, meet-

Uh, the standards that we have for what we, what we do as work, and we want people to have a, a keen eye for doing good quality, and we want people to have, uh, a great worth- work ethic, that they would, um, recognize a problem and, and bring it to attention and, and help us solve that problem. Um, you know, some of the things that we do that we spend the most time on is the problem-solving. So every house is different, and what we run into at each, uh, house is, uh, can be tremendously different even though they're kinda cookie cutter in, in seemingly on the outside.

But, um, everybody in our team is, is great at problem-solving and, and having a, a, a concept of, uh, what needs to happen to fix the issue to bring comfort and, uh, to solve those challenges. But yeah, we're, we're looking for great people all the time as we grow.

Yeah. Um, HVAC technicians and, uh, insulation technicians, building analysts, um, marketing, um, different positions that we decide that we need as we grow. Yeah. And a lot of times we're looking to, um... It's challenging to try to hire from other organizations because the real, th- you know, the realization is why they're maybe shrinking a little bit is they've been taught the wrong way.

And, you know, I think, uh, I think to myself, you know, we, we, we get s- There's, there... What do they say? There's a, uh, you know, you can, you can get in a groove. You can get in a groove, but if it's a, if the groove is not the right place, it's a rut. Mm-hmm. And there's a difference between a groove and a rut. We wanna be Wise Home

Energy folks. We want in a groove, moving in flow, all operating, uh, um, together in one motion to fix these, homes. And, and sometimes I get, calls and, you know, everybody tells me, "I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, I've been doing this for years."

And over the years, I've taken a few chances and I was like, "Oh my gosh, you don't know what you're doing, and you've been doing this for how many years have you been-" Mm. "... doing this to people's homes? I mean, you know, trying to fix these homes." Um, so that's really, um, one of- the challenges is we have to find somebody who's moldable, and sometimes we're better off just- taking somebody who has the right attitude-

Yeah. ... and, and bringing them in and say, "All right. We, we'd like to train them the Wise way. We want them, we want them to be. part of this team." And, and it, it's a learning curve. I learn every day. If you think I walk into the office thinking I know, everything, I, don't. And the minute I' do, I know, it'll be time to be put out to pasture and, and, uh, they won't let me, do the radio show anymore.

Oh, no. It'll be a bad time. Yeah, so. Say it isn't so. So I'm always ready to learn and, uh- Hire for attitude, train for success. That's right. That's right. And Eric, uh, he's really, um, uh, an, an instrumental, a, a instrumental part of our team. He's working on, uh, a really, uh, neat, uh, uh, uh, critical task, is redoing our website. And really, this, this website is gonna be a massive, uh, educational opportunity.

So for, as I said before, not just people in our region, but I think other people outside our region will be able to, to look at that website. What are some of the features that we- we're working on there, Eric? Well, it's time for an overhaul. It's, it's getting a little aged in its look, so we want it to look fresh and clean. Um, but more importantly,

I think, you know, part of what we wanna do is educate people. Uh, we want people to understand, you know, maybe, maybe you're not local to, to Western New York, but you've stumbled upon, um, some information on our site. But we wanted to help educate people about, um, you know, what, what your home might need for, um, you know, understanding what we do, uh, for the services for, you know, how, why it's important to do a blower door test. Uh, and even what that is. Like, you know- Yeah ... most people have never run across the stuff that, that we do, like air sealing and, and blower door tests. And you, you know, you, you're buying a furnace maybe once in your lifetime, right? So going through these steps of, uh, investigating what your home needs and, and what you think it needs and, and having answers available for you, uh, is really what we wanna do. We wanna provide that information, easy, to find, easy to understand, um, what these things are and why it's important 'cause they're... You're not an expert in this stuff as a homeowner generally. Um, and if you, if you are, you've done your research.

So you have, uh, you have a lot of opportunity here to, to educate people on, on, um, the different things that we're doing, uh, but have those answers. You're gonna, you're gonna wonder, "How much does it cost to put a furnace in my home? How much does it cost to insulate? Um, and, and what kind of insulation do I need for my home?" Uh, and we wanna answer those questions too. So you can go on and, and kind of, you know, we wanna build it so you can build out your needs a little bit and, and get an idea of, of what pricing is available and then even maybe what, um, financial opportunities are out there with some of the programs and things that you can do. So, uh, for, so really it's, it's gonna be designed to, to help people understand what we do and, and what your specific needs might be to help answer some of those questions so that you're informed. And, and at the end of it, we hope you choose us, you know, by, by going through the website and learning some things. But, uh, it's really just to educate you to- Yeah

... so you understand what, what, uh, is needed. Yeah. It-- That excites me. Uh, you know what? Really we think about, um, anything you go to buy, it's an Amazon world. You can get online.

Uh, you go to a car dealership, you go to home goods stores, you know exactly what stuff costs in the range.

But in regards to upgrades like this, you don't really have... Most people don't really have any idea what it costs.

So, uh, I think the pricing is something that really excites me, so people have an understanding. Um, they can do their own research on our website and- Uh, really know, um, budget out and say, "All right, do these improvements make sense for me?"

Uh, the w- the way we look at it is, uh, insulation sometimes we think is, uh, more of a, uh, elective, uh, I wanna call it surgery, but elective pr- elective procedure.

Whereas, uh, heating might be, and hot water more, might be more of a mandatory type of thing. And sadly, sometimes heating and, and water heating, you, you have to make an emergency decision. And we want people to have that educational forum so that they can make that decision, uh, beforehand. You can sit in the comfort of your own home and do the research and, and know that, hey, Wise is, is the company for me. This is what I'm looking for. This is not a premium price.

This is a premium product that they're offering. So I can take this information and, um, I have a, a baseline of, of what things might cost. So that, that's an exciting feature. I think we should probably have that rolled out in the next, uh, 30 to 45 days, I think. And, and that's, that's gonna really help, uh, people, uh, whether our clients or other, uh, uh, people in the market for these services to really, uh, educate them on what path to look for, what tests to do, blower doors, uh, real energy audits, real energy analysis of what they use. So that's ex- that's exciting.

Um, so, uh, Wise Home Energy, uh, give us a call, 585-270-5836. Visit us on the web. There's still good information now, but visit us on the web in a month and it'll even be more robust. Uh, we're there to, uh, help educate you to make the best decision for you and, and whether that's with us or someone else, we just want you to make, uh, that good decision. We've-- uh, we're working with a program.

They've given us some energy audits, and as I call these, uh, it's a nonprofit, and as I call the, uh, the customers and ask about their home and how old their furnace is, and they tell me, "It's brand new. I just got it a year ago," I d- I just kinda shrink a little bit and think, "Oh my goodness, 90% chance it's oversized. It's the wrong size." Really? That, that, that frequently? It's still happening. It's, you know, it's... And, and some could say it's my bias or my opinion. No one's doing the calculation of a manual

J load calculation. Um, but we're just, you know, w- just over the phone like that, but I know the previous person didn't do it. Um, and we can just sorta look at the, the energy modeling and look at the usage and go, "Well, uh, w- Wise would've chosen a smaller system." Uh, and really we call it a right size system, so. It's, it's an easy way to fix a problem, but it's the wrong way to fix a problem. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes the, uh, easy solutions are, are not the best. Uh, almost never, I would think. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, give them the contact info or, uh, information one more time. Yeah, wisehomeenergy.com or, uh, call us 585-270-5836. Pick up the phone.

Don't be cold in your home. The Wise Home Energy Show here on the WYSL, WLEA stations, The Voice of Liberty.