The Blower Door, the Farmer's Horse, and Why Size Still Matters

Welcome again on the Voice of Liberty to the Wise Home Energy Show. That's WYSL, WLEA,

WCKR. And our host for the most, as always, is Jeff Flaherty in the studio. Hey, Bob. It's, uh, always, great to be here in the studio. with our expanded coverage it' sounds like. Yes. Uh, we bid a, a big hello to our new friends in the southern tier at, uh, WLEA and WCKR FM in Hornell, as well as their second FM at 106.9.

And it, it's, uh, especially gratifying for us to be, you know, contemplating buying these stations, which is what we're in the process of doing, because that was where I started in this wacky business 57 years ago. That's amazing. What goes around comes around and, uh, yeah, it's, it's neat to hear. Um, it's an area that, uh,

Wise Home Energy's, uh, been covering for about six months. We, uh, cover about three counties down in that area: Schuyler, uh, Steuben, and, uh, Chemung County. So, uh, excited for you guys to, uh, have that coverage and for us to jump on board and, uh, uh, get our word out down there too. Yes, we're thrilled to, uh, you know, to, to be working with those guys. Of course, uh, since the station, uh, was slated to sign off, uh, on Monday last, uh, the... W- we, we moved very quickly here with, uh, the fine folks of the Ichikawa family and also the Dorans, the longtime owners of WLEA, to make this happen. And the interim, uh, measure that we took was to simulcast WISL down there, so-

That's excellent ... they're getting a dose of, uh, all of us, uh, as a, uh, a case of first impression. Hope you're enjoying the show. And let's tell them what the Wise Home Energy Show is all about. Yeah. The Wise Home Energy

Show is, uh, really, uh, an educational and hopefully entertaining show that, uh, really talks about all things, uh, energy, but, uh, really, uh, home improvements, uh, in regards to comfort, energy, and durability. So

Wise Home Energy is a company that's been in, uh, business since 2010. Um, uh, National Energy Star Contractor of the Year award winner for six years, and our focus is to, uh, really analyze, uh, what a home needs, uh, and what can be improved in a home for, uh, comfort, durability, and efficiency. And usually those things fall into, uh, insulation, uh, air sealing, and, uh, mechanical upgrades. And then there's many s- uh, incentives from the state and from the utilities that we use to, uh, make those upgrades, uh, very palatable. Now, Wise Home Energy has a systemic approach to this issue of having a, of, of being home comfort.

Uh, and, uh, why don't you explain to them that process a little bit? Yeah. Because it's not just a, "Oh, yeah. You know what? We're gonna come over and we're gonna, uh, plunk down a new air conditioner on this pre-made slab." Yeah. It doesn't work that way. We re- we really do, and, um, we stick with that. And people try to get us off their game sometimes, and, and that's not a good plan.

And, and so New York, anybody in New York, uh, is eligible for a no-cost, uh, home assessment. So, uh, we all pay into a fee on our utility bill. There's so many on that utility bill that it's hard to actually, uh, identify which one it is, but it's called the systems benefit charge, and we, uh, pay into it, uh, not voluntarily. Uh, we, uh, we pay into it, you know, uh, every month we get that bill. And, uh, uh, so we just have, uh, we have a few different types of, uh, assessments. Some are, uh, income-based, so you can get a more, uh, robust, uh, energy assessment with some testing. And then there's one for everybody that you just fill out a one-page form, and we come out to the home and do a assessment of the insulation levels in the attic walls, basement. Um, we'll, uh, look at the mechanicals. And then with Wise Home Energy, we add on for no cost, uh, if it's a reasonably sized home, uh, a no-cost, a blower door, uh, air leakage test. It's also called an air tightness test. So it says how much...

It'll show us how much air leaks out of the home. So, um, and that's similar to, um, uh, going to a doctor. Uh, you, um, you know, you don't go to a doctor and get all the tests that they could, uh, offer you 'cause no one would be able to afford that. Insurance companies wouldn't be able to afford that. So we, uh, we look at the home, and we start with that base test. So you can almost view that, uh, base test as similar to when you go to a doctor and they're checking your weight and your height and your blood pressure and, uh, uh, doing that general physical. And then from there we, we expand on from there, so. And then once we're done with that assessment, we just show what's available to improve in the home and what, uh, rebates or grants are available to, to really make that, uh, um, an, an easy process to, uh, uh, improve your home. Uh, describe the blower door test. That's kind of the gold standard really, right? For, uh, for measuring the leakage and, uh, integrity of, uh, insulation- It- ... and related issues. It really is. So, uh, we call it the red door of truth sometimes. So mo- most frames are, uh, are a red shroud. So we'll put it in a door, uh, an exterior door of the home. It, uh, you just open up your doors, and it has an expandable frame, and we, uh, put the, uh, door in with a fan. And, uh, there's some prep work to it.

Uh, it's not a, it's not a test that you just can turn on with no experience. So we turn off all the mechanical equipment, uh, close all the exterior windows, open up all the interior doors, and then turn on this fan.

And, uh, y- you can actually run it in two different ways. Uh, depressurizing, which all the air is blowing out the door, or pressurizing, the air is blowing in. Uh, and it'll quantify. The, the computer has a, a algorithm that it's measuring the pressure and the size of the hole, and it- it'll calculate how much air is moving out of the home at an exaggerated rate. Um, so for about seven years now, um, the new built home, uh, in New York State is required to have one of these tests, and it has to be below, uh, three air changes per hour. So there's some, some, uh, mathematical calculations that need to be performed.

You have to know the volume of the home and Uh, so it gives you the quantifiable number. So usually, uh, if new, if a new-built home is three air changes per hour, we'll see, uh, that '80s-built homes are five to seven air changes per hour roughly.

And, uh, as you get to the '50s through '70s, you're, you're gonna get to the seven to 10 air changes per hour. And as you get below the, the 1940s to 1950s, you can see that, um, that'll range, uh, usually between 10 and 15 air changes per hour. So that's just air that leaks out of your home, uh, and costs you money, uh, when you're home and when you're not home. Uh, d- and that's due to stack effect. So the home... Uh, if we're heating our homes to 70 degrees and it's 30 degrees outside, your home acts like. a, chimney, and the air comes in low and then leaves high. So it's, uh, it's, a phenomenal test.

Um, it's a test that tells you if you've been successful in the work you did, or it's... tells you if you've been unsuccessful in the work you've did.

So, uh, we' use that tool to verify, uh, not only the existing conditions of the home, but to verify that what we offered a client, we actually delivered, and, we, can prove that to, them. And there are some rare instances where you can't do a blower door for construction, uh, reasons or some health and safety issues, but, uh, we' are trying to, do that, uh, test as often as possible for people. Yeah, you might be surprised too. I mean, uh, I, uh, I had a house, uh, my first house I bought in Pittsburgh was built in 1930, and it had the old steel frame, uh, single-pane, uh, uh, windows in it. And, uh, there was a, a staircase, uh, that went from the living room upstairs and, uh, had a, a landing and a left turn, and there was a window there. If you walked by that window, if there was any wind blowing of , you know, of any magnitude outside- Yeah ... it would blow the candle out. The candle out. Just walking by. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's, uh... It's certainly one of our favorite tasks.

Um, we, uh... I'm in a peer group with five contractors across the nation, and, uh, occasionally we, are looking to invite new contractors in, and we have rules of that, um, peer group. Uh, we do site visits and kind of, um, do a deep dive into, into the contractor's, uh, business operations.

And, but one of the rules is you really have to do good quality work. And, and we had somebody who was interested in getting in the program or in our peer group, and, um, when we, uh, dug a little bit, we didn't really see any blower doors.

We didn't see a, a commitment to quality, and we, we opted to not let them into the, the peer group. So, uh, it's that big of a deal. Um, we can... You know, words are words. We can say what we're gonna do, but, um, most people know that, uh, talk is cheap and you really need to back it up. And that's what that, that's what that test does for us is, is backs it up. So, um, yeah, exciting to, uh, you know, spread the word of the blower door in the Southern

Tier and, and all across New York State. Yes. Welcome, WLEA. Do you have, uh, just to, uh, just to whet their appetite a little bit maybe, a tale from the tattered case book of Wise Home Energy? Uh, some of the, some of the stuff that you encounter out in the field and, uh, what you do to fix things. Yeah.

I mean, I, I... To me, we fix all types of homes. To me, the one that, uh, is, is so interesting to me was just, like, a two-year-old home that, uh, a brand-new built home, and the client was uncomfortable. And, and it was probably built to code, and we got that blower door out, and we just said, "There, there's problems here, and we're gonna, we're gonna propose pulling out the attic insulation, um, uh, treating the rim, joists in the basement, treating a cantilever," which is a, a, a floor, a second floor that hangs over the first floor that, um, is, uh, quite a energy burden for homes. And, uh, we, we cut that blower door. I think it was around

2,100 to start, and cut it down to 1,400. So- we cut a third off of, this new-built, uh, you' know, energy... built-to-code, uh, home. Two, two years old. Yeah, two years old. So that...

And, and that, shows, that' usually shows that most homes can be improved. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, that's a neat test. Uh, so that, that's phenomenal news that, uh, um, that, uh, we are now down in, the, uh, Southern Tier, uh, broadcast- broadcasting the show. And, and then we had some other news. The last time we were on there was, um,

I think there was a, there was an election that took place. Yeah, just a little. And, uh, so, uh, what was interesting is people often said to me, you know, "Aren't you concerned, um, if one party wins or the other wins for, uh, the, uh, results of energy efficiency?" And, and I just think, you know, um, it reminds me of the old, uh, the farmer story where once upon a time a, a farmer... horse ran away and, uh, and then all the neighbors came over and said, "You know, this is most unfortunate." And the farmer said, "Maybe." And then the next day, the horse came back and brought seven, uh, wild horses with it, and all the neighbors said, "Isn't that great?" And the farmer said, "Maybe."

And then the following day, the, the son tried to, uh, break one of the wild horses and he, he broke his leg. And all the neighbors said, "Oh dear, that's terrible." And they s- he said,

"Eh, maybe." And then the next day, the, uh, uh, officers from the military came to enlist his son, uh, of, uh, into the army and, uh, uh, they saw he had a broken leg and, and they couldn't get him in. And all the neighbors said,

"Isn't that great?" And he said, "Maybe." And it really shows that, uh, life has these changes and, uh, and sometimes, uh, we don't know whether they're good or bad. But I, I view, uh, energy efficiency similar to the leaves falling on my lawn. I'm, I'm gonna rake them whether there's a, a rebate, uh, for energy efficiency or not. They're... We're, we're gonna have to, uh, do this work regardless. And, and, uh, New York State's a, a unique state in that, um- These, these efficiency upgrade, uh, rebates are, uh, based off your utility bill. So the federal government doesn't have any, uh, means to, uh, dabble in that, uh, to my knowledge.

You nev- you never, you never know. But, so, uh, you know, the... And also government, uh, it moves slow on purpose, right? It's, uh, something like making sausage or something like that, or there's three branches of government to, to slow it down. But- Yeah. It's, uh, meat, dairy, and, uh, what's, uh, grains, I think. Right. Right. Exactly.

So, um, yeah, so that's my little farmer story, and it's good to, uh, you know, think in those terms that, uh- Yeah. Things are never as good as you think they are, and they're never as bad as you think they are. Exactly. Exactly. And that's, uh, that's, uh, kind of a, an approach, uh, uh, when looking at government and its function.

Yeah. Uh, and, uh, our recent experience with government has been the less, the better. Uh, less, uh, spending, uh, less bright ideas to- Yeah ... impact our lives.

And, uh, so we'll see where we go, but, uh, I, I'm, I'm elated about the results of the election. Of course, this is The Voice of Liberty, and we are, uh, you know, unabashedly conservative, so we're very pleased with the results. Now, what's, what is that, all this going to portend?

Uh, we don't know. Yeah. We don't know. Uh, uh, but, uh, if we've learned one really good, positive thing from the last four years, and from these election results, it's we need to, be vigilant. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, since it's the, uh, the voice of freedom, I mean, I like freedom. Um, and we, we have the freedom to, uh, you know, make good decisions or, bad decisions, and then the results come with it. So, uh, yeah.

Uh, let's, uh, let's have a little more freedom. So- Welcome to, Hornell. Yeah. Absolutely. Hor- Hornell. Uh, la- last I turned, uh, my attention to, Hornell, uh, you know, things were not great there. But boy, things are popping in Hornell these days. Uh, you got Alstom down there. They've got these, uh, big projects.

They're hiring people. Uh, Bombardier, uh, another, uh, foreign industrial concern, uh, has things going down in, in Hornell. So we're excited. The folks in Hornell are excited, and, uh, things are on' the upswing.

We' congratulate those fine folks down there, and, uh, and, uh, we'll be watching things and telling them what's going on. Yeah. Absolutely. We, um, um... As I was saying before, we've done some work down in, in those areas, and, uh, we' do work in, uh, a, lot of different counties. And, um, you know, one of the things, uh, that NYSERDA does is, um, they have regional clean energy hubs. So, uh, each, uh, area is broken up, and, they'll have, um, a, a clean energy hub that.

will, uh, uh, help walk people through, uh, what, um, energy efficiency grants are available. Um, they'll assist with accessing job training for employment in the clean energy sector. They'll, uh, be able to discuss a home energy assessment. in more detail with you.

Uh, they'll help you, uh, fill out an application for a free home energy assessment. So, people may be reluctant to call a contractor.

Um, there' are numerous contractors that work in the program. And, uh, you know, as my father used to say, uh, "Not everybody graduates at the top of their law class." Now, I don't think that's true. But

I think Bob Savage graduated second, but we, think the first guy cheated. So, um, but, uh, I always liked that adage. You- you- you- Very, very complimentary. Thank you. But it- I, I wasn't Joe Biden, I'll tell you that.

Right. But I was in the top 10%, so- Excellent ... whatever, whatever that's worth. Excellent. Um, so these energy hubs, uh, you know, some people just, eh, if you wanna call and, quiz somebody, they're not-for-profits. They're gonna just have, a conversation with you, guide you through, uh, the process and, and, and let you know what the, uh, the best course of, action is. They'll even review. If you get an energy audit and you don't understand, and you're feeling a little, um, you know, set off from the contractor, you can review these, uh, energy audit results, um, um, you know, with, with the energy hub. So down in the southern tier, that covers, uh, uh, those counties there. It's the, uh, Smart Energy Choices. Uh, uh, their number is 607-366-0833.

Uh, in Western New York, it's called Push, uh, Green Hub Coordinator. That's 716-886-1780. And then in the Finger Lakes region, it's called AMPED, and that's 585-419-6218. And you can just Google, uh, New York, uh, clean energy hubs. But that's a nice way to just go get some information.

And, you know, sometimes the people, we don't have those, "Oh, let's go through a sales process and kitchen close and put your arm behind your back, and until you, until you say uncle, uh, sign the paper."

But, uh, I imagine some companies do, and you're gonna... And people don't like those sales processes sometimes and, and feel like the only option is to say yes. So

I like it. These hubs give you an opportunity to, um, have a conversation with, uh, a third party that's, uh, um, just gonna give you some unbiased opinion and not push you to do anything. So just wanted to get that word out there' about the re- regional clean energy hubs. Before we go into, uh, any more, uh, wading through, uh, you know, agencies and phone numbers and whatnot, let's tell them about Wise Home Energy, what your, uh, you know, uh, what your contact number is. Yeah. Uh, it's, uh, and your name is Jeff Flaherty. Yes. And you do this show on a regular basis on The Voice of Liberty. So, uh, y- uh, if people have questions, they want, uh, maybe they wanna ask about a blower door test. Yeah. Maybe they have some issue going on in their home.

Uh, they... You have a phone number for them to call. Yes. Just pick up the phone. Yeah. Pick up the phone. It's 585-270-5836. Uh, we can... You can actually call or text that number.

You can visit us online at wisehomeenergy.com. Uh, and you can also hear our, uh, our old shows here on the WISL too. So, uh, yeah. WISL1040.com. Yeah. We're gonna link that over to wlea.net, uh, at some future point. But, uh, you know, we can't get our, uh, you know, cart before the horse here. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

So we, uh, you know, we have access to a lot of different, uh, programs. So we're also a, uh, member of a pilot program in the NYSEG/RG&E territory. So if you have those fuel sources, uh, maybe the NYSERDA program isn't a good fit for you for, for what your project is. We, we, we map out, um, and it might be the RG&E/NYSEG, uh, insulation air sealing grant.

Uh, the utilities have, uh, rebates for, uh- Uh, the hybrid hot water tanks and the, um, um, heat pumps.

So the, there's so many different things, and it's... I recently had a, a gentleman call me up from Virginia who, uh, asked us to do his mother-in-law's house in Buffalo, and it's, it's been kind of a, a challenge because he's really gotten into the details of the project, and it's gone back and it's forth, and it's back and it's forth, and he's, he's, to me, over-designing.

And so when we, when we design a, a heat system or a cooling system for a home, we do what is called a manual J load calculation, and that is just calculating the, the window glazing, the insulation, the air leakage, uh, the sun orientation to the building.

And whoever wrote the program is gonna have some fudge factors in there. So we know these things are oversized. So, uh, most contractors take that number and then add some to it. Very bad idea. Very bad idea. So we, we did the calculation and, and we gave him the proposal and he said, you know, "Did you do a load calc?" And, and I, I almost said, "Well, what's the point? I'm at the smallest equipment available. I don't have anywhere else to go." You can't take a chainsaw to these pieces of equipment and cut them in half. You're not allowed to do that, to my knowledge. Um, and- Just run them every other hour.

Yeah. So i- it, and it- we've gone back and forth for a couple months and, and, uh, you know, I said, "You know, maybe you should design it, and I'll tell you if I'll install it." And, uh, we've circled so far around that we're back to my original proposal.

So it's, um, you can overthink these things. Um, I think he's in a s- in a hot, humid climate, and our cooling, uh, needs up here are two months out of the year. And i- it's, it's... But that's one of the things that w- we are very good at, is properly sizing that equipment. We're only left with what's available to install.

Um, so we'll, uh... You can overthink these things, but you don't, uh, you don't guess. Uh, if you think of, in terms of, uh, Thanksgiving dinner, a lot of times there's so many leftovers, right? You're just... And that's kind of the, the theory with, um, HVAC, is if you just oversize this thing, what are you doing with all this extra heating and cooling? You're paying for it, it's not working efficiently, and you're paying because it's, it's cycling on and off.

So, um, the next step for us is to lobby the, the suppliers to, to give us a smaller piece of equipment. That's really all that's left for us to do, that we're, um, you know, tightening up these homes so well.

Um, but that's, that's on them. We can't, we, we can't install what's not available. So, uh, but that's an interesting, uh, uh, really story that, uh, design is important. You can overthink it. Uh, but really one of the design tools is to look at your actual energy usage. It tells a story. If you're...

Unless you're in Florida, if you tell us what your set point is, and we can look at your efficiency of your current equipment and your conditions of your home and your, your set point of your thermostat, we can reasonably say, you know, what the size of the equipment is just off of that information. It's, it's amazing. It's, it's actually, uh, what we use as a secondary authenticator to, to, you know, make sure we're putting in the properly sized equipment. Fascinating. And if, if you haven't picked up on this, uh, I'll just say it out loud, there's a lot going on. There's, uh, more, much more than meets the eye when it comes to being comfortable in your home. And it's not just about the sizing of the furnace or the air conditioner. It's not about, uh, uh, you know, adding ducts or anything. Uh, the, for example, one factor that, uh, trips a lot of people up is humidity, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. That is, um, that is something that your device in the, in the wi- uh, summertime is meant to remove, remove, um, the humidity from the air, and if you oversize it, you're gonna have a cool, clammy house. Uh, so that is, that is something that is a big concern, and it's hard to, um, totally diagnose the, the moisture load of the home. So certainly we don't want dirt basements. Dirt basements are going to lead to moisture coming into the home. Poor grading around the home, poor gutters, uh, not diverting the water away. But that is a huge issue, is the moisture load of the home, and one more reason to properly, uh, size a, a piece of equipment.

Um, so- If you don't, if you don't address the, uh, the moisture content, you're, you're getting into other areas like, uh, air quality, mold, for example. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We talked last time on the last show that there was a, a lawsuit down in Texas, uh, about a home that was built about, uh, six, seven years ago.

I would presume by the size of the home this is a million dollar home, and the folks moved in, and six months later, uh, they started getting sick. Uh, mostly started with the wife and the dogs, and just a real sensitivity to mold, and it, it wasn't even guessing on the mold anymore. It was showing up on the walls. But it was in a lot of the interstitial cavities between the first and second floor where ducts were not connected properly. Um, they said the builder had come out, um, 47 times to make adjustments to the HVAC system.

Oh my gosh. Well, you don't get much for a million dollars these days. No. And right at the end, uh, as it was going to trial, uh, n- and I believe it was the nation's largest builder, they settled. And so there's a gag order on it 'cause they got, you know, their money and they, they did a little interview right before the gag order. And, and, you know, the homeowners, you know- ... concern was that really there's so many subcontractors. The builder is the GC and puts all the liability on the subcontractors, and, and who's at fault? And, um, his take was that there was one superintendent reviewing or overseeing 21 new build homes.

So, uh, that's just a cautionary tale on not only having the right people in there, uh, but having the right design, but then doing the right tests. You know, some of the tests that could've been done in this home would've resolved this or prevented this. Duct, uh, duct blasters, blower doors, um, moisture load. Pro- it was probably the wrong size equipment. I didn't really get into the details of it. But those are cautionary tales that when you go to, uh, have somebody make some repairs in your home, what are their qualifications and what are their, um, guarantees and warranties for the work they do? Yeah. And, uh, by all means, check their reputation. Yeah.

You know, f- uh, but now this, this might've been, as I say, a case of first impression because you mentioned this is the world's, or world's... The, the country's biggest home builder, so, uh, maybe this was completely unanticipated.

Uh, but, uh, y- but you can save yourself a lot of heartache- Yeah ... by doing some homework. Yeah. Don't be in a rush. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's maintenance on homes. You have to be able to, uh, do the proper maintenance. If you don't change your furnace filters, or if you have energy recovery ventilators, if you don't change those filters, now it's not operating properly and you can cause the problems by not having the proper maintenance done on your equipment, so. Um, and it's, it's usually all avoidable. We sometimes, you know, walk around our houses and forget to, you know, check certain areas, but, um, that's why, why it's good to have a home assessment, you know, I would say every two, three years it's not a bad idea. Uh, you can have these over and over again in New York

State, so. And you're paying for it. Yeah. And, and it, it's not free. Yeah. You've already paid for it. Yeah. So you might as well use it, and boy, the, the dividends are pronounced. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So, uh, give us a call. 585-270-5836. Visit us on the web at wisehomeenergy.com. There's a lot of information that walks you through the process, and, uh, we'd be happy to answer any calls. Start with a 15-minute phone call and we'll, we'll, talk it out. Many, many success stories, ladies and gentlemen. And I know you folks in the Southern Tier, in, uh, in Hornell, Wellsville, uh, Canisteo, Bath, you guys like to be comfortable too. So give 'em a call. Pick up the phone.

585... 270-5836. And it's another paid program on the Voice of Liberty, WYSL and WLEA, WCKR.

Get the podcast, wysl1040.com. We'll see you next time on the Wise Home Energy, Show.