Be a Good Partner, Know the Process, and Stop Listening to Fred

It's the Wise Home Energy Show on WYSL. Pure energy. And your host, as always, the smiling, genial

Jeff Flaherty. Thank you, Bob. Always, great to be in the hot seat with you, the master of the mic across the- Oh, shucks. Thanks. Boy, and it is a hot seat today, isn't it? It is. It is. Thank goodness. What a wonderful spring we're having, except, uh, I believe they're saying the pollen is bad. I've noticed that my, uh, challenges and, uh, many of my coworkers and loved ones, I hear kind of the same thing. Yeah, the cottonwood is what gets me. Absolutely. Yeah, it's what... It's, uh, it's kind of interesting. We, uh, talk about, you, know, closing up the house and making sure we filtrate out some of this stuff, and then I'll have a client, you, know, tell me, "Oh, you know, the, the spouse keeps the windows open, likes the fresh air." I'm like, "Well, we' can't really do anything about that." Put the filter on the spouse. Absolutely. Yeah, I love, you know, I love the fresh air, so I, I, I... If

I had my, druthers, I'd keep the windows open as much as possible, but, uh- Well, when the rains come, that'll clear things out, uh, considerably, and, then people will be unhappy about, the rain. But, but no, this is, uh, actually one of the worst parts of the country for pollen. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. That's just so I'm told. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I d- I drove down here today and, um, I, I almost made it the whole way without, uh, having a bad experience. I- It seems like driving is a challenge these days. I, I, I tell people, friends and coworkers and loved ones that, you know, don't, uh, don't, uh, hit the gas when the light turns green. Look around, because it is kind of a crazy time these days, isn't it? Yeah. Uh, the red lights, uh, in Rochester have become kind of optional, uh- Yeah ... in the city. It's, uh, kind of a recommendation. Yeah. You know? It's amazing.

Is it like a post-COVID thing? Like the, the death of decorum? You know, I've, uh, flown a little bit the past year and, uh, uh, apparently there's, uh, a airplane Olympics. I don't know, if you've seen it, but the people in the back, they are playing more than the people in the front, and they run down the aisle, uh, to get out first. So I, I, you know, I always think maybe they should just buy the first class ticket if they wanna get out first. Yeah, exactly. Or, or just, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day. Utica was, I know, but not Rome. Right. And so just, uh, be patient. I mean, what, uh, what... How much time difference can there possibly be disembarking from a plane? Yeah. Well, a lot of crazy stuff, going on on planes. People who like, uh, losing it, wigging out and- Yeah ... screaming and obscenities and, uh-

It, it really- Come on, take it easy. It really is. I' wanna get in my seat and just practice in that. silo. Just hold onto those, uh, keep the elbows tight and, uh- You know? Yeah. It's a lot like golf, I guess. Keep the elbows tight.

Yeah, I think, uh, I think that maybe flying on a commercial aircraft requires a little more, little more skill than golf.

Uh, but, no, I'm just kidding. But, uh, it, it... You know, when you think about it, what, what a miracle it is for us to live in an age where, you know, you wake up in Rochester, New York, and later that' day you're on the Florida coast. It? does amaze me. It is really neat, isn't it? It, it really is. Later that' same day. It's, it's amazing. It really is. It's just, uh, you're up and, you're down and, uh, you, you have a drink or, uh, some pretzels and, uh, bam, you're, you're, you're ready to go. The people, ran by you, and, uh, then I get off the flight and yeah, it is, it is amazing. It's true. Yeah.

Um, you know, speaking of the, the death of decorum, it's, um, you know, o- one of the things we... I, I've noticed myself and, um, you know, with labor shortages, it's hard to get, um, people to come and do work.

It's hard to get people to come and do interviews. Uh, so we have a team of, of great folks that, do the work and, you know, sometimes people are, uh, you know, expectations are, uh, maybe a little different than, um, you know, what the real world is. And, you know, one of the things I wanted to talk about today is, uh, you know, be, be a good partner in the process. You know, the work we do, as we've talked about, is, is gonna last, um, you know, 15, 20 years, uh, for, you know, typical, uh, equipment installs, uh, 20 years and longer for insulation.

Uh, so this stuff is... You're not gonna do it every day, so in the few days, we're there, we wanna just make sure that, um... This is difficult work. It's, these attics go to 130 degrees. Uh, be, just be a good partner in the process and be ready for it. And, and an example is, you know, if we're going up to the attic, you just wanna have that stairway cleaned off so that we don't... We wanna focus on fixing the problem. We don't wanna focus on making sure we don't step on something that shouldn't be there. And, and- Yeah, or fall. Yeah. And it's, and it's, new to you. We tr- we try to give people the, uh, expectation or kind of the, the, uh, you know, planning process of, "Hey, we're coming. It's gonna be, um, a little chaotic. There's a lot of people coming around your home." Our homes are a sanctuary, so we don't really want people running all over it. We don't wanna run all over it, and, uh, we don't want to, um, have a problem, 'cause we have to fix that problem. If we're at the, home, we have to fix it. Um, things happen. Mistakes happen. We are... We didn't build the home. We don't know, how it was built.

Uh, you' know, a lot of times, I've drywalled a lot over the past 40 years, and I've always used a screw. And I know, prior to that, some people used nails. I don't know, when that was a, an accepted practice, but nails pop, and we can sometimes insulate an attic and a, and a nail can pop. And, um, these, these ceilings weren't attached the way we would hope them to be attached. Uh-huh. So sometimes things happen.

We come and fix them. Um- We just, need to know about it. Sometimes we don't, we don't see things and so pe- you know, just have a communicative process with your contractor.

Um, most contractors are gonna wanna take care of things and make sure things are done correctly. And, you know, I, I, you know, sometimes I see, uh, you know, mostly we get raving reviews. Uh, you know, sometimes we get a, a review and it's a neighbor who had some dust, uh, on their property, and it's hard for... We don't know all the neighbors' names. It's, you know, you wanna communicate with your neighbor if you're having something like, uh, exterior insulation done on your walls because a lot of homes are close to each other. So you wanna, uh, just have that, uh, talk with your neighbor. We're gonna fix it. It's, uh, the stuff we're using is, um, the same stuff you would use to, uh, hydroseed your lawn. So it's, it's, um, uh, we just, we, we, there's a lot of escalation, right? It's kind of a Facebook mentality. I'll snipe you here, snipe you there. We're better off suited to just call somebody and say, "Hey, this is the issue

I'm having. Hey, give us some time. We'll come over and fix it." And it, happens a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's construction. It's kind of a, um, uh, an unknown when you start peeling the onion of a house. So, um, yeah, I kind of wanted to just get that point out there because it is, um, it should be a partnership. Um, as you, as some people have found, when you go to call people, no one's even calling you back to g- to get work done. So this is. kind of the, the times we're in. Uh, understand that most people, uh, wanna do good work and, um, you know, give us the opportunity to, uh, make it' right is, is the way it should be. Sure. 'Cause get- getting on the, the internet and posting that things are wrong, it doesn't give us an opportunity to usually tell the, tell the whole story, so. Once again, I feel thankful that I don't participate in social media, which I call anti-social media. I just, you know, I,

I, way, way back in the early days of online discussions, I got on, you know, uh, uh, bulletin boards, you know, discussion boards, and it just struck me that w- all these people are doing is arguing-

Yeah, ... with each other and they're taking positions and challenging, and it just seemed like a, a huge waste of time to me. Yeah. The other thing too is it seems like institutionalized envy to me. "Oh, look at my vacation.

Look, uh, we went to, uh, Gstaad to ski, and then we went to Disney World." Yeah. "And then we went and shook hands with the Pope." Uh, you know, uh, I, I, I, it just seems, you know, boastful and, uh- Yeah ... kind of materialistic. So, but, but, uh,

I, I don't know, maybe this is just a theory that popped in my head while we're talking about this. Your home is always your castle, and we spend an awful lot of time during the pandemic. That's me, folks. That's not Jeff. It's okay. Uh, that, uh, you know, and I think, more, than ever your home is your castle, and maybe people are more territorial about it.. I mean,

I don't know. It, c- it could very well be. Yeah. It's, um, it, it's interesting, and I, I think you're a, a lucky person to not be on those, uh, sites. It's funny. Sometimes I feel like I have to be on, uh, but they're also educational. But, um, you're right. I, I hear that, I hear that all the time. Yeah. But, but, you know, I feel, I feel like I have to. Yeah. But why? Well, yeah. They, they... From, from my s- standpoint, we network with people across the country that it is in a specialized industry, so it's kind of interesting in that regard. I wish it would just had that portion of the social media part, but you're right. Um, and yeah, our home's, uh, yeah, our castle, and boy, neighbors can, neighbors can be, uh... Well, you can't pick them, right? They're like family. You can't pick your, your neighbors and your family, right? They're just wherever you bought, that's, that's what, you got next to you.

Um, but it's, uh, it's an interesting thing in, in, in I just think people, um, tolerance levels are down and, uh, you know, it was... One of the examples I have is we always talk about, you know, people want, uh, us to come out and give them an estimate for an air source heat pump.

So this technology, uh, is different. It's new, and it, there's a learning curve. We have a, a heating, uh, installing population out there that hasn't had a lot of experience with it, and recently I was at a, uh, training for one of our, um, heat pump, uh, manufacturers, and there was eight contractors in the room. We were probably the unique one that did the insulation and the, um, design and the, the HVAC install. And, and the contractors were complaining that the equipment was too loud, and it couldn't keep up.

It, it wasn't, um, uh, doing what it was supposed to do in the home. And, and our team kind of looked and said, "Well, it's, you have to, you have to look at the thermal envelope to see how much heating and cooling it needs, then you match it up properly with the device."

And, um, not everybody knows that. And so re- recently a gentleman, uh, called, and we have these no-cost assessments through NYSERDA. We sign them up. It's a one-page form. And, uh, suddenly he called and said, "No, I just, I just want an estimate. No, I didn't, I didn't want that." And it's like, well, who, who's, who decides the equipment? Who decides? You decide? You, you probably haven't worked in the industry. Right. Do I decide?

By l- if I'm gonna look at it from the road, I might as well just look at it from the office. Send me. a picture. And, and, and, and so who owns that responsibility is one of our challenges, and one that we don't wanna get into. We want to do the assessment to find out what the home needs, and that's one of the challenges of that kind of, uh, unforgiving society right now is people think by getting an estimate, they're getting a massive design, uh, design build, and it's, just, it's not realistic in today's labor environment. I think the, the death of the free estimate is. coming. I think that's going to be, um, in the near future because it's just, it's, it's, it's hard for a company to devote that many hours to come out and design a solution for somebody. Uh, so you' take advantage of these NYSERDA programs that offer so at least subsidized, at least a no-cost light assessment where we come out and get a look at all the components. The home is, a system. It's all the, parts coming together. Uh, basement, if there's moisture problems, will be related to the insulation problems, will be related to the, the HVAC problems. Uh, uh, and, and, you have to look at all those things together. So, uh, I'm hoping we, uh, you and I are educating people on this process and the word's getting out because it- Well, that's what the, that's what the Wise Home Energy Show is all about. I, I...

Now, let me ask you this, folks out there, just, just to consider what Jeff's telling you. If, uh, your car wasn't running right, and it was kind of, sluggish and, didn't have much power or whatever, do you go into the auto repair shop and, say, "Okay, I wanna, uh, you gotta change out the transmission in this car there 'cause it needs, it doesn't have any power"?

And, and, and the mechanic says, "Well, you know, it might not be, the transmission. In fact, it probably is, not the transmission." Do you say, "Uh, that's okay. No, you know, my, uh, my brother-in-law, Fred, says, uh, y- that's the tranny, so put a new one in there."

Yeah. Uh, y- y- you know, I mean, uh, these people are experts. That's why you hire them. Yeah. That- that's why you want somebody on your team who knows what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

I just had a... Uh, it's funny, I, I must have dealt with a lot of Freds, uh, because I, because I just had a home where the, the, the father got involved and said, "I've been in the industry for, 40 years."

The, the industry is a loose term, and we' had proposed a, uh, properly sized heating equipment, and he, he said he wanted a larger one. And he just didn't...

And, and I just said, "I've done 100 of these. I, I know what I'm talking about." And you can't say that, but I, I emailed him and said, "I just want you to, to read this, and I want you to just confirm. I want the email trail that, you're overriding my, uh, diagnosis." And I said, "You know, your home, we're gonna also air seal it' and tighten it. down, so it's gonna use less than it used to." And, he said, "Don't, don't, don't. tighten it' too much." And I'm thinking, when I'm up in the, attic, which half of the, attic do I- ... do I air seal? Uh, the, front, the back, the left or the right?

So w- that's not the way it' works and, and, things change. Certainly I, I don't... I dealt with a gentleman over the phone. I don't, I don't know what his background was, but things change. We know how this works. We, we can air seal these, uh, homes, uh, very tight and then we just have to, have thought out design, uh, ventilation. And so he overrode me. I have the email trail, so, uh, you know.

Uh, but the, like I said, I, I don't want this guy to end up in a year being online, you know, uh, commenting that I'd, you know, put in an, an oversized furnace, you know? It's like I can't win that fight. I know. It's, it's a no-win, right? So. Yeah. I don't know if you ever come to the point where you go, "You know something? Uh, maybe you ought to have somebody else do this install." Well, that, that does happen. We want... It, it. is a courtship. We want a, a client that values, um, our expertise, and we want a client that's, um, you know, that, that, that wants us to do the right job. You know, one of the things the, with all these incentives, people will say, "Well, just, you know, just write that down or just tell the program this." And my thought is, if I'm willing to lie to the program- Yeah ... what do you think I'm gonna do in your attic?

Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I just wanna circle back on' the, uh, term, too, of free estimates. Uh, ain't no such thing, folks. Yeah. You know, look, Wise Home Energy and every other business, you know, uh, of, of any repute is going to, is going to have to, they're gonna have to make a profit.

They're going to have to earn enough money to keep the doors open and pay their bills and so forth. So the free estimate is just, that's, that's a come on' that, uh, is, uh, that's an expense that gets spread across the customer base including you. Right. Absolutely.

Yeah. No free estimates. Yeah. That is, uh, that's a phenomenal point, Bob. It's, um- Just, it's just a cost, right? I didn't want you to give out our secret- Nah ... but we, we do make a profit. And we've decided a long time ago that we could fix your home and no one else's, or we could, and not making money, or we could fix your home, make money, and then we can go out and help other people's homes. And that explains- And give people jobs ...

why Wise Home Energy has been here how long? Uh, 13 years. 13 years. Yeah. Congratulations. So that's the, that... Thank you. So that's a good point. So I think that's a good time to say that, uh, you know, if you're having any concerns in your home or you'd like, uh, to get an expert diagnosis, you know, call Wise

Home Energy, 585-270-5836. Uh, as we said, um, you know, things are, uh, busy and it's, it's good to prepare. Even though it's beautiful, uh, weather now, uh, we know that, uh, this area is cyclical in weather, so we will, we will get cold once again. I shouldn't mention it, but, uh- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... you know, now is a great time to, uh, really design the comfort of your home and, and make it the home you wanna live in. Let's circle back for just a minute. Now, you mentioned the light assessment.

This is the NYSERDA program. Uh, tell, tell the folks, you know, you've got these, two different levels. You got the, the light assessment, and then you got, what do you call the other one? The specific- Uh, I call it. an advanced assessment. NYSERDA has, um, a term called a tier one or. tier three. Okay. Um, tier two is two tears in my eyes if I do the paperwork wrong- Oh ... I guess.

Um, but the, uh, the, the lower t- uh, tier one and tier three are income based, and they get, uh, advanced assessments, which is a blower door and combustion testing on your appliances. Um, and the light assessment is a visual inspection where we're, we're climbing up in the attic, uh, checking these insulation levels. We're examining if the home has been air sealed. So we, we know, the different, uh, ages of the homes and the different building flaws of that time.

Um, so you're getting a full, uh, uh, inspection of the home, uh, visually and creating a, a report that shows you what can be improved. And, and from there, really on that light assessment... So, um, NYSERDA's program is called, uh,

Comfort Home, and so anybody with a publicly regulated utility is eligible for. this program. And what that assessment does is then gives you opportunities for rebates. So they have their specifications of how much insulation needs to be in an attic, walls, basement, and if you hit these different tiers, if you, if, if your home's up to Those levels, great. You're in great shape. If it's, not, there's different tiers of rebates of 1,000, 2,500, or even up to 4,000. But it has to follow that process, so you can't, uh, you can't come in and just say, "I want a house full of windows," and your attic has no insulation. So, um, it's a well-thought-out plan. Um, it, it's, it's something... And what's interesting is you can do it. The technology changes, so if you did it 10 or 20 years ago, it's worth a second look. It's worth a second look from someone who's had a lot of training. Uh, the, you know, the, you know, I continually, uh, go to training classes, and we continually send our team to training classes.

This is an ever-evolving industry, uh, with, um, different technologies and, and different, um, uh, knowledge bases where we're just improving on what we know, and how we can improve a home. So, um, they c- anybody can access that, and it's worth a look. I mean, it, you don't even have to, you don't even have to be home. You gotta open the door. You can sit on the couch and watch TV.

Uh, point us to the attic, point us to the basement, and you're- It's not that, intrusive usually. It really isn't. They don't, they don't have to, leave the home. No, it' really isn't. They can stay. They can go to the grocery store. They can follow us around. They can g- they can go to the attic, which 90% of the folks that we go to have never been in the attic. Really? 10, 20 years. If it's, not used for storage, they usually have never been up there. It's amazing.

When I was growing up, the attic was the home of unwanted Christmas presents. That's right. It's just, a- awaiting some kind of re-gifting program. Uh, but, uh, so w- the, the MO here, I mean, the, uh, uh, the whole reason that we're doing all this is this is a holistic approach to the quality of and the comfort level in your home. So heating, air conditioning, um, v- you know, ventilation, uh, maybe, maybe even, you know, particulate matters and, and dirt control and dust and stuff. This is all stuff that you... This is the process here' is to arrive at a multifaceted solution to whatever's going on. It' might be windows, and it might be insulation, and it might be, you know, I mean, what? Roofing, I suppose? W- a- I mean, you could get to roofing if you had a situation where the roof, um, something, most times the roof isn't the thermal, um, uh, boundary, but the roof is the weather boundary. Mm-hmm.

So if you're... We' find that sometimes. We' come out, "Did, did you know you had a roof leak?" You know, we've, we've spotted that up there with an IR infrared camera- Right ... uh, that can spot moisture problems or just that visual inspection in the attic. If it's, a, small leak, they don't know. We don't, we don't examine every square inch, but we can usually spot, you know, problems that, that, that people don't notice. You don't notice your environment that much when you, uh, when you're in it all the time.

You know? It's like I don't notice cobwebs on my, my ceiling. I'm sure there's plenty, but if I go to the house. next door, like, I just see it. I don't know why. It's, it's, it looks just like my house, but y- you, kinda, you tend to see it. So, um, we' get- used to our own environment, and, and we're climbing in areas that people don't know, um, what to look for and what problems are there, so. we're, we're giving them that information.

And we're not a, we don't have a commission-based, um, uh, staff. We have a, um... You know, some companies use sales and a, a, and, and an audit technique, and we just, have, uh, really program, uh, project managers. They come out and, and diagnose the home, um, and, and do what's best for the customer. And, and it's, um, it, it works. It's great.

Um, it, it's, you know, it's, it's... W- we're just, we just did one recently where, you know, they call us in after others have failed. You know? That, that's some... That's not our goal because they've generally wasted some money there.

Um, but we, you know, we come in and, and just use... When I, when I, tell you the, the equipment we use to diagnose,

I, mean, w- we're approaching probably the 15, $20,000 range. Mm-hmm. You know, not every tool is gonna need to come out. Um, there could be 50 tests in a home, and we don't have four days to do that. So we have to come in and kind of be a general, uh, physician and then say,

"Well, these are the three tests we need to figure out where we're at." And, uh, it's, uh, you know, I, I, I wish other people in, would get into this industry. I think there's a lot of homes. You know, we're s- we're getting calls that are homes that are one and two years old. So it, it's, there's this mindset that, "Hey, my home's 10 years old. It's fine.

Um, my home, I had my attic done 10 years ago. I'm great." It's not so much how your home is, it's how you want your home to be. Is your home exactly the way, you want it to be? Is that second floor hotter than it is the first floor, uh, in the summertime? If it's dramatically hotter, that can be fixed. You know? If it's maybe one or two degrees, it's probably negligible and, and a more difficult fix.

Um, if you have mold, uh, showing up on ceilings, that's, that's unhealthy for the people in the home. Um, th- this is all building science, and, and, and it can be corrected. And- Time and technology march on.

I mean, you know, y- you think about, um, you know, when you get to be my age, when you could buy a brand-new car for $3,500. Uh, but what was that car like?

Uh, you know? I mean, uh, did it have passive restraints? No. Did it have cruise? No. Tilt? No. Uh, air conditioning? No. It had the little wing windows. Remember those? Right. Uh, uh, all, all that sort of stuff. And, uh, and the thing was a, a rust bucket by the time it was two and a half years old. Yeah.

Uh, so I mean, uh, cars cost a lot more than they used to, but it's a lot more car. Yeah. Absolutely. Same, same deal with, uh, you know, making your home. Y- you know, a- as you say, not a home, don't hate your home. Uh, pick up the phone and call Wise Home Energy. Absolutely. A- and you're gonna have a much better, uh, you know, lifestyle.

It's not just about heating and air conditioning. No, without a doubt. And NYSERDA really is focused on the energy. They get the energy savings, um, that, uh, is easier on the whole system. You get a lower bill, but you also get those added benefits of comfort. Uh, when we get those rooms that people can't use, rooms above their garage or second floor bonus rooms, um, it, it's just, it's heartbreaking, you know? It's, it's... 'Cause they don't know, it can be fixed, and it can be fixed.

And it can be fixed safely and, and really it can be fixed at a reasonable price usually is what we find. Right, because you have, you have built-in, uh, uh, what, grants, uh, po- or at least the potential of that. Absolutely. And, and you guys are, are the go-to guys for ferreting that out and finding economical ways to make your home all it can be. Right. Without a doubt. And we, not only... We always talk about NYSERDA, but there are other grants if there's income, uh, uh, eligible people. We do have other, uh, grant sources that we can source depending on the geographical area. So there's, there's other stuff. We don't really talk about it. Um, each, each situation's different and it's based on the geographic area, so.

So real quick, let's do a 60-second elevator talk here on what the process is. You, you know, you get a call from somebody, and what's the first step? So we, uh, we d- we do an intake process. We really wanna find out what's going on in the home. Some people are brand new, they' don't really know much about the home. Uh, but if you've been there a while, we wanna know what comfort concerns you've had. Um, numerous times I used to go to homes and say, "Hey, do you have any ice issues?" And they'd say, "No." And I'd climb up in the attic, and I'd come back down and say, "You don't have any ice issues?" And they said, "Oh, my gosh, they're hanging off the gutter."

Like, you know, they must not have understood the question or the people are on their, uh, defensive. But we do that intake. Uh, from there we guide them to the right program.

Uh, we, uh, get the utility bill. We need to do an energy analysis. We need to see the utility bill. We usually get a one-page sign-up, or there's a longer application for the income eligible.

But you do all that. We do it all. Yeah, we, you know, uh, do it by mail or email. Uh, and then once it's set, once it's approved, then we come out and do the assessment. It usually takes two to three hours. Um, and, and we welcome you to ask any questions. We take tons of pictures. You know, people get nervous. "Why are you taking pictures?"

We're taking pictures of your fridge. Your model number has information about how much energy it uses. Uh, we take pictures of things like drop ceilings. We take pictures of things that we're gonna need to look back at two, three, six months, three years from now if there's something going on or you revisit the project. Uh, we provide all those pictures to you. Um, and, uh, then we, then we work up the, the report and just show you, um, you know, what's available for you to, to improve and what rebates are available.

Tell them to pick up the phone and call. 585-270-5836. Don't be cold in your home. Don't be hot in your home. Uh, don't hate your home. Uh, just pick up the phone and call Jeff and his, his band of merry men and women, and they will come and, and get you comfy and safe and save you money. Thanks for joining us here on the Wise Home Energy program on the WYSL stations. We'll see you next time.