Basements, Blower Doors, and Why Bigger Equipment Is Never the Answer

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for the Wise Home Energy Show on the WYSL stations. Pure energy. And here in, the studio, we have the maestro of, uh, Wise Home Energy Concepts, Jeff Flaherty.

Hey, Bob. Great to be back in the, uh, studio, here with you. Happy summer. Oh, my. Yeah. It's been, uh, it's been, an interesting summer, right? With our, uh, you know, it' got-- they got- the heat wave quick and, uh, really we've had some challenging, uh, anomaly type weather, I call it, right? We' had a bunch of tornado warnings recently, and a few landed.

Um, and it, was interesting when I was, uh, I was driving along during some of those warnings and, uh, it seems our alert system is a, a lot better, uh, than, than it maybe it used to be. And, you know, one of the, uh, uh, warnings they were giving was mobile homes. Uh, get out of the mobile homes. They're, you know, not secure. And I, I thought that was kinda interesting that it was really kinda picking on, um, that housing, uh, structure. And, and, and so there's probably certainly some truth to it, but there's also, uh, some install challenges that those, uh, are supposed to be more tied down.

And so you could also be living in a home next to a big tree and, and we've seen, um, you know, certainly some tornado damage down in the, the South and the Midwest that is, is very damaging. So when we get to anomalies of weather, um, it's not where we really live. And so sometimes that, that strikes that panic, and certainly there, there is that danger.

But, you know, I think of anomalies as, uh, rolling dice, right? It's, it's hard to get the two and the 12 when you roll those two dice because the probability is low that you can get, uh, two ones or two sixes.

And, um, and so it's good to be prepared for things like that, but I don't think, uh, we need to live in fear over that. And, you know, around that same time we were getting some of those, um, tornadoes, we were getting some heavy, heavy rains and, and certainly certain areas get just hammered and, and, and basements flooded. And, and in fact, at the Wise Home Energy office, uh, we have a particular area of the office where, uh, water will come in.

And, and if the rain is just too hard too fast, uh, the drainage system can't handle it, and it will just keep rising up and, uh, it'll slowly leak into a couple areas in the office. And so what we've done over the years, we've been there, oh, probably about seven years in this, uh, particular area, is we just have to, uh, plan for that. We have to put, uh, things up. We don't put soft goods on the ground. We just kinda prepare for it, and we have to be around for it. So we, um, if, if we're around, then we, we can quickly clean and mitigate the situation, uh, 'cause it's usually just a quick deluge of rain. And, uh, as, uh, uh, Jerry Garcia once said, "Maybe I had too much too fast." And that's what, that's what happens with the rain, is if it just comes too quick, it overwhelms, uh, the drainage. And, and so there's good preparedness we can learn from that.

Uh, uh, was, uh, called over to a friend's home, uh, with their basement. All of a sudden they started having some water come up and, um, she had a great, uh, setup where the stuff was, uh, the supplies or the storage was off the ground on plastic shelves, uh, so it doesn't start wicking into soft goods. It-- we go into so many homes where, uh, we wanna finish our basements or we use all that space in the basement to store things, and soft goods are gonna suck up the water. Once it sucks it up, um, you now really have a giant risk of mold, uh, those musty smells. Um, oftentimes we go into basements, and if you see an electric panel box with a lot of rust on it, that's just an indicator that we've had some water in this basement. So that, you know, similar to, you know, preparing for tornadoes and, and being aware, you can, uh, prepare for these floods. If you have a home that has that potential, uh, we would certainly advise not storing any, um, um, soft goods down in that, that area. Um, metal items are gonna rust. Uh, so you'd wanna use, uh, plastic sealed bins and have them up off the ground. You don't really want wood to keep them off the ground 'cause that'll wick it up and hold the, hold the water.

Um, but the home like that I went to the other day, I don't think that was, um, that was a total anomaly. She had a sump pump. There wasn't enough water to go into that sump pump.

Uh, the, the actual, the way the sump pump is designed is there's a couple tubes that, uh, pipes that run around the whole perimeter that catch that water through the floating slab, bring it over. But those were dry. So not enough water came up. It's just a rare instance. Uh, but other, uh, homes, you can start to see, um, if the gutters are clogged or not draining the water away. Um, so a lot of times, uh, you'll hear the myth of, uh, oh, to stop ice dams, which is a, a wintertime problem, that you wanna clean those gutters, and that's, uh, that's a myth. That's not gonna really stop ice damming. What it's gonna do is allow the water to drain away from your home. So if you got

1,000 square foot home, you've got 1,000 square foot of surface area on your roof that you're catching that water. You wanna get that away from the home.

So a lot of times we see, um, the gutter stick out three feet, but then when it gets to the three feet, the grading is graded right? back, so it's, uh, it's not doing what it needs to do. Not going anywhere. Yeah. And it's, um, you know, it creates in the basement a lot of, uh, uh, challenges. You can come into these homes with... I love finished basements and, you know, y- there are certain eras of homes that I call them like the, 50s and 60s, Cape Cods and, uh, wonderful bars down there and, and Knotty Pine. And it was just the era, uh, kind of a better time.

I, I, I think of how the, the neighbors would congregate on, that street, and, there' was just so much more of a community. I, I sort of miss that. Yeah, me too. Uh, I would love to see that, uh, come back, um- Knotty Pine Bar. And you g- and you gotta have a, uh, a bass plaque. Absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes on the floor, uh, they used to have the nine-inch tiles. Sometimes they'd have shuffleboard, uh, laid out in that, you know? Exactly.

You'll see some, uh, some neat things from the, from that era. Uh, and, and most times that's not a problem, but we'll come in and you'll see the first four inches, uh, of the wood, um, where evidence of, of moisture or sometimes it... you, you can kind of see the evidence of mold-like product. And, uh, it's, it's something that people need to be aware and prepare and, and that can be as simple as, uh, getting a, uh, dump truck of, of soil and grading that away from the home.

Um, and, and once you guide that water, that capillary action, uh, depending on the grading all around the area, if you can guide it, away from the home, you can really, um, you know, help yourself and, and avoid a lot of, uh, heartache. So, it doesn't happen for everybody, but you don't necessarily need to run out and get, um, uh, basement waterproofing. But it is really part of, um, home performance. It's, it's... You know, I think of it as a basement is a lot like an in-ground pool, except one is trying to keep water out and one's trying to keep water in. So you don't, uh, you don't wanna lose the water in the pool, and you don't want the water to come into the basement.

So, uh, having a little plan there and, uh, you know, maybe some, uh, some, some backbreaking labor of throwing around some cheap dirt is a, is a easy way to, to help correct the situation.

Um, but look for those, uh, telltale signs, the moisture of, uh, on the panel box and things like that. Um, metal that's rusting is, is, uh, a bad sign and, and it means that y- there's some work to do there to help correct the things. Um, but that's my take on anomalies. I'm not gonna get into throwing dice and, uh, you know, the other, uh, uh, ways that we' can, uh, you know, um, uh, use dice, which, uh, are more entertaining. That I would just wanted to use that for probability, uh, purposes. Hmm. What could he, be referring to, ladies and gentlemen? Um, yeah, what's, uh... Not dominoes, no, just dice. Um-

Oh, no. No ... uh, but that's, uh, that's, you know, kind of the w- you know, the little hidden gem of, uh, um, of home performance. And, and really, you know, to recap what Wise Home Energy does, we, uh, it, we, we... A lot of people think that we're strictly a, a high-end, uh, consultation firm, uh, because we access, um, New York State energy grants through NYSERDA or through the utilities. Um, we will still come out to your home and install a furnace and, and it's really, uh, we're giving a premium service, uh, at, at a value price. So a lot of people, uh, make the mistake of thinking that we're gonna be very expensive because of the expertise that we bring to the home.

But if you're just looking for a furnace, um, you know, we can do that. We're looking to see if there's any other problems. A furnace won't solve baster- basement moisture problems. It' won't solve, um, second floors that, are super hot in the summertime and, and, uh, super cold in the wintertime. And, and so that first step is always, uh, getting an assessment.

That's what we'd like to do, um, i- depending on your goals and there's really no better time. We-- Anybody can get that no-cost assessment. All you have to do is call our office and, um, we can set you up. Uh, it's, a pretty quick process. It's 585-270-5836.

Uh, but some of the changes that have happened is... And so anybody can get it, uh, regardless of income. But if you're income eligible, uh, you, uh, really should take advantages. These programs change. So currently there's a, an, um, a no-cost program where if you're income eligible, um, you are eligible for some no-cost items.

Um, uh, and it'll have a budget for the house, and it' needs to fall into a calculator that says that this makes sense to do in your home, that we're gonna save some energy. So the- And you do that for the, uh, for the homeowner? Yeah, we do. We process the paperwork, and we do the actual work. Uh, and we test it, and we provide results that we're gonna, um, make these savings. Um, so that's always been around. That's a great program. There's a 50% off program, uh, that, that up until about a month or two ago was you get 50% off, uh, of eligible measures up to 10,000. So if you had a $10,000, uh, work scope, you would get $5,000 off if it's, if it's, uh, an approved measure. And that's paid for by

NYSERDA? Paid for by NYSERDA. That- Actually paid for by us. It's paid for by us. We-- It comes off a fee off our utility bill. There's, uh, too many fees on that utility bill to, to really, uh, sort through, right? We just go right to the bottom line.

But, but one of those lines is called a systems benefit charge. And, and so what they've done on that 50% off eligible, uh, program is now the first five grand comes off the top. I don't know exactly how that works, um, but it's not the you spend a dollar, we spend a dollar. It is if it's an eligible measure, your first 5,000 is no cost. So- So if it's

$7,000, you've got- You would pay two ... a large chunk of it- Yeah ... knocked off. It is. It is. There is no better time. And these programs change, and they can change with almost no warning. Mm.

So, um, so anybody, you know, just to recap those, um- Uh, income guidelines, a family of four, uh, making less than $93,408 a year, uh, would be eligible. A family of three making less than $78,464 would be eligible.

Uh, and even if you only get the no-cost assessment, uh, almost guarant-guaranteeing you can find something, you can learn something about your house that you maybe didn't think of. Uh, you know, when I, when I go to a doctor, when

I go to an expert, I learn something that, um, you know, I didn't know. That's not my expertise, medicine. Or, uh, when I think of nutrition, I, you know, I, I look for an expert to tell me about it.

And, uh, it's hard to be an expert in everything, so, uh, we're experts in the home energy efficiency, durability, and safety. So, uh, it makes sense to do that. And, and so on that income, it's gonna be based off of your, uh, last year's tax returns or your last four weeks of income, whichever's better. So you, you know, if something's changed, things have gotten better this year, use last year's tax return. If something's changed this, this year and it's, uh, lower income, use, uh, the last four weeks.

But it's certainly worth it. Uh, it seems to be the, the best hid-hidden secret out there. Uh, but take advantage of it now because it, it can change very, very quickly.

Um, in fact, I think, uh, I was on a few months ago and I, um, uh, you know, unveiled some, some new programs and a week later they changed. Uh- Whoops

There, there were some incentives and, and they lasted about seven to 10 days. They- Subject to change, ladies and gentlemen, whatever you hear. Yeah. And they really...

Uh, so yeah. Um, it is not to say, "I should do this, I should do that, I should..." Just get the assessment. At least you know what, uh, what you need. It's like getting a physical. You, you may not, uh, you might not like the results of the physical, but at least you have a, uh, a baseline of where you are and what you can improve in your home. Um, and it, it's just, uh, it, it's very cost-effective, uh, right now to do that. You're listening to the Wise Home Energy Show here on the WYSL stations. The guy that you're t- uh, hearing chat with us is Jeff Flaherty. He's the major domo of Wise Home Energy. And it's, uh, you know, if we've learned anything in these programs, if you've followed these for the last, I don't know, uh, however many months, uh, the... We know the conventional wisdom, the, the way that people approach

HVAC, uh, is frequently, um, not the answer. Uh, or it's at best maybe a partial answer. Right. So, uh, it, it's really, it's really a great choice, you might say a wise choice, to contact these guys first because, as you say, you get the, the premium consultancy, uh, function, uh, a- as well as the expertise of installing new equipment if it's indicated. Uh, notice there's an if there. Right. Uh, so that could be a furnace, right?

You, you... Or you would do a package unit maybe if- Yeah, we could do a furnace or- Co- cold, cold weather heat pump. Yes. Uh, mini splits. Yes. Uh- Yes. Yeah, the whole, the host is there. Some of the pre, um, challenges, like, uh, if you already have a high-efficiency piece of equipment, um, they do not allow those incentives. We, we hope that in a few years if they really wanna move people to heat pumps, that they will change that. But that's currently, um, the case for extra... I should say for extra incentives. Um, if you are, uh, just getting the, uh, clean heat utility rebate, um, yeah, that is, um, uh, still eligible. So, um, it's, it's really, it makes sense.

We, we did some home, homes recently. We've gone to a, a few homes that, um, they're not that old, 10,

15, 20 years old. A little larger homes. We're probably in the 3,000 square foot range. Uh, and we always talk of that blower door test, and their blower doors were, were kind of similar in the, in the 1,800, uh, CFM, which is cubic foot per minute.

So on the surface, uh, most companies are gonna say, "That's a great number. You are all set." Uh, this one particular home, um, second floors are very hot in the summertime and very cold in the wintertime. The, the HVAC system isn't gonna solve that problem. Uh, in fact, we cut the, we cut the size of the HVAC system in half, uh, and we could just leave it like that. Wow. We, we... It was 92,000 output of BTU and we cut that, um, over, over a half. It's under, under 45, the new unit. Um, but we weren't quite done with the job and I had to kind of remind the client,

"Hey, the second floor is... That didn't, that didn't solve your problem." We needed to get... They, their AC had failed, so we had put the equipment in. We still need to do the attic. So even though the blower door on the surface you'd say it's great, we need to air seal the attic, uh, which is gonna improve that. Now we can then, um, tweak the duct work and, and make that, um, those, uh, second floor, uh, much more comfortable.

But the other thing they had going on, uh, is the basement was finished with drop ceiling. Luckily it wasn't drywall, but they had, uh, kind of a heavy, uh, mouse infestation and that's where our, our foam, uh, insulation on the, uh, basement rim joist is gonna make a huge difference. Uh, and so that blower door, uh, you know, years ago I probably would've said, "That's a great number," but it is a great number.

It's almost... It's really built to code of today, uh, which is great from 15 years ago, but there's still opportunities to fix it. So the two homes, one wanted to fix it and the, the other doesn't wanna fix it. So it, it's just a, we lay it out. It's an equation for you. If you would like to Um, you know, make those improvements. If, if y- if the mice coming in your home bugs you, it would bug me. Uh, and, and, and if the second floor being hot and, and cold, uh, bugs you, then, then we can fix that. We can look into what it is, uh, that's causing it. We can detail it with pictures, with testing equipment, and just show you, uh, what's available to fix it and see if it makes sense. And, and there's, there's a lot of rebates out there. There's rebates for, uh, folks of, um, uh, any income. So NYSERDA has a program. Uh, and then we're currently involved in a program with, uh, RGE and NYSEG that has a, uh, a different program.

So we... What we do differently is we, we advertise the grants, but it's-- You don't wanna go out and say, "This grant's for you," because we don't know what the, is going on in the home. If you don't have a problem you wanna fix, I wouldn't go chase a grant, uh, because it, it, it could cause more harm in your home. If you install a piece of equipment because there's a grant and you get that nice rebate, that upfront cost, it might cost you in the long run because the equipment, uh, isn't properly sized. Because the, the calculations we make are kind of, um, you know, what you put into a computer, uh, program. It's kinda garbage in, garbage out. You can, you can tweak it to make somebody get a higher grant, which is a disservice to the people. So that's, uh, that's...

It's sad that that can happen. So we are more looking at the energy usage. We're using the energy usage as a true-up to the actual model. So that's kind of a double check for us. And then the end result is,

"Hey, where did your utility bills go? Did they go down?" And then two, did they, you know, how did the comfort or what was the problem you were looking to solve? Was it smells in the area? Was it, uh, moisture? Um, so we do the, you know, we really break down the energy efficiency is the insulation and air sealing and the HVAC.

But then the other side of the equation is, uh, building durability and indoor air quality. Typically, those things are gonna cost you a little money. So running a bath fan, it's gonna cost a little money. Uh, running a dehumidifier, it's gonna cost a little money to operate. So- But a payoff, though. Yeah, payoff on health, payoff on better quality of life. So yeah, we have- And maybe even a payoff on energy savings. Yeah. You, you just related, uh, that, uh, you, uh, uh, advised somebody to reduce the size of their plant from 90,000 CFM to, uh, uh, to 45,000. Was it CFM or was it BTU? Uh, BTUs. BTUs. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Really, uh, it's exciting.

Um, it's exciting because we, uh, we've spent a lot of years, uh, honing our skills. Um, when, when other, uh, folks are out there, um, in clients' homes, we're, we're at seminars.

We're, we're here locally at seminars, we're at statewide seminars, uh, we're at national seminars, and, and now we're at the stage where we're not only attending these, we're presenting at these seminars with real case studies of, of how this works and how you can fix these homes. And, and it's somewhat of a fight. We go to the home, and they say that they've had three other contractors there, and there's really nothing you can do, uh, with those second floors. That's, you know, those are just the way they are. And, and there might be a hint of truth that the way they built the duct work, but we know, um, that through diagnostics, um, and, and dialing in that, uh, air sealing and, and then we can tweak, uh, the heating system. We know we can dramatically improve those second floors. Duct sizes and so forth. Yes.

Yeah. And, and, um, hopefully the industry will catch up. Um, the contractors will, uh, do these tests. And the state, you know, is kinda recognizing some of the, the tests that need to be done and, and mandating them and, uh, and then it's just a question of, you know, does the practitioner know what's going on? One of the things, um, that can really happen with a, with a ducted system is the new furnaces all have ECM motors. Uh, so it's an electrically commutated, uh, motor and, and so it runs more efficiently. Infinite speeds, right? Yeah. So it runs more efficiently and, but it'll ramp up and down. So if you have a, uh, a pressure, a static pressure problem in your ductwork, it's kinda like high blood pressure, so you're gonna have the furnace fail quicker. And who's gonna know that? The client's not gonna know that.

Um, so, uh, there's tests for these. Now, that's just for a furnace. When you move to a, a heat pump, it needs to move more air. So what you, what you, uh, tested for a furnace, now when you move that to a heat pump, we need to make sure that, uh, ex- static pressure fits within the parameters of that device to, to make that thing operate properly. And so that'll have, uh, reduced noise. A good system should have, uh, really reduced noise. You shouldn't really hear this thing, uh, ramp up like a jet engine.

Uh, and, and it'll, it'll prolong the life of the unit. The other thing that happens is when you have high static pressure, um, the amp draw on the unit is raised up so much higher. So even though the box that you bought it in says

Energy Star, now when you actually put it in play, it's not that energy efficient. So all these little kinda nuances and, and the extra, um, testing and verification really leads to, um, huge results. Uh, and that's when it's done right. If it's done wrong, now we lead, now we lead down the road of energy efficiency doesn't work.

And we know it when it's done right, we know that it works, so. Well, anything that saves you money has got to be worthwhile. And so if you're not realizing those savings, it's because we didn't take a systemic approach to this.

And you, uh, being smart folks out there, uh, you've probably picked up on this, uh, this HVAC, sorry, uh, uh, HVAC stuff is a, uh, is a complex issue. It's not just, "Ah, we need a new furnace."

Uh, oh, and by the way, uh, because the old one is pretty old, let's get one that's 10% bigger- Yeah ... or 20% bigger- Yeah ... or what- whatever.

Th- that's not the approach anymore. No. And that's the size of, uh, you know, on the coldest day, um, you know, uh, that's the heating that we're designing for. And even the s- even the calculations have a fudge factor in there. They even say that that's probably 20% oversized if you properly size it. So, you know, I always say that if you're, if you're, you're designing for that coldest day, and it happens how often, going back to the probability of rolling snake eyes, it's the coldest day is less than rolling snake eyes in, in dice. So, um, you could, you could just supplement with a little e- electric space heater.

Um, and people challenge me at some of these conferences and say, "Oh, you know, you're, you're gonna freeze grandma." And, and it's just, we, we've installed this for, you know, we, we've used this approach for five to 10 years, uh, aggressively sizing equipment, and we just haven't had those calls. And, and I say there, there's nothing wrong with, uh, you know, buying a, uh... You know, planning for your funeral, but you don't need to sleep in your casket for the next 20 years. So, uh, so just be prepared, you know, maybe buy an electric space heater. It'll save you so much money, um, b- because we're operating more in that bell curve of, uh, you know, 20, 30, 40 degree temperatures.

So, um, it, it's good to plan for the worst day, but I don't think you have to live in fear, uh, of the worst day. And those days are coming up before you know it. Right. You know? We're, uh, I can't believe how fast this summer's going. It is moving fast. It is moving fast, so. Well, quick, before we run out of, uh, space and I run out of voice here, uh, let's, uh, let's tell people your contact information, your name, uh, how to get in touch with you, and how the process goes. Sure. It's, uh, it's Wise Home Energy. It's, uh... So I'm

Jeff Flaherty, uh, founder of Wise Home Energy. Uh, our website, wisehomeenergy.com. Phone number's 585-270-5836. Uh, we're really operating in, in all of Western

New York, uh, Monroe County, and, uh, contiguous counties, uh, Erie and Niagara. And you just call up and have a conversation with us. That's the first step. We'll tell you if it's not a good fit, and we can maybe point you in the right direction, um, based on what your needs are.

Um, but if you are, we're just gonna walk you through the process, show you how to, help you fill out the application. Uh, it's very quick and, um, and we come out to the home. You can walk around with us. You can sit and watch TV if you'd like, as long as you're, we can walk around the home and do our inspection, and we'll show you what's available to improve in your home to live a more comfortable life. Wise

Home Energy, don't be uncomfortable in your home. Give them the phone number one more time, Jeff. It's 585-270-5836. Paid program from Wise Home Energy. Thanks so much for listening to the Wise Home Energy Show on the WYSL stations. Get the podcast at wysl1040.com.