Town Homes, Blower Doors, and Why Code Is Just the Minimum

It's the Wise Home Energy Show on the WYSL stations. And Jeff Flaherty is here from Wise Home Energy. Once again, welcome to the new year. Bob, thank you. It's, uh, great to be back in, the hot seat in the new year.

Well, the warm seat anyway. Absolutely. Warm and comfortable. So what are we talking about today? So it's, it's, m- it's, a mild winter, somewhat, well, depending on where you live. As of the time we record this show. But now that you've said that. Yeah. It, it'll happen, right? So, um, you know, one of the things

I always notice, I drive around. Some people look at, uh, trees and birds. I look at, roofs on houses, and I look at snow melt. So, even though we've had kind of a moderate, uh, snow in this area, unless you're down in Buffalo, uh, you know, I look at, the roof melts of homes. And what's... What I find it interesting is you' drive by these town home complexes, and there are some strange melt patterns on top of these roofs.

And- Do tell. And the, and the town homes. are, uh, an interesting idea. I... You know, it's, it's an... it offers maintenance-free living, right? And homeownership. Um, or as what' I like to call it is never cut a lawn again in your super cold home. Um, so-

I love that. It, uh, you know, it, it... I, I don't know if sometimes people don't realize that they can fix these things, and there's kind of the, uh, balance of whose responsibility is it? Is it the HOAs, which is everything kind of outside the structure of the walls?

And then you can do anything you want inside the structure of the home, which w- really is the energy efficiency of the home. And, and we go into these, uh, homes, and we see typical flaws of, um, the building, uh, s- era. And, and it's not really the HOA's fault. I mean, homes in the '60s were built to the '60s standards. Homes in the '70s were built to the '70s standards.

We know how to fix those and make those homes much more comfortable. And it's, it, it's just interesting to me 'cause I think a lot of people just don't realize that they can improve these homes, or you're stuck between a couple units, so you don't really have that much exterior wall space. But the calls we get are the people are cold, they're uncomfortable, and it's, uh... We even, even get, uh, like, freezing on front walls of homes sometimes because they build these things and, and kind of stamp them out. Once you, once you get the, uh, the unit pitched, uh, to the, to the developer, they, they stamp them right out, right? Yeah. Well, they wanna sell them because they on- don't make any money until they get to the last five units. That's right.

Then, then they make a, a ton of money. That's right. And, uh, so we go up into these attics, and we find the typical, um, air sealing problems. The homes aren't air seal, the top plates. We do find a lot of unvented bath fans, depending on the era of the h- uh, home and how the, how the roofing, uh, improvements have been made over the years. So e- even though the bath fan, by code, is supposed to be vented out of the home when it was built, that wasn't the case. So- Didn't have to be. Things like that, we have to get variances from the HOAs and supply insurance, and, and they have to approve that you're gonna put a roof jack on for the bath vent, or you're gonna maybe upgrade to a 90% furnace. You gotta put that out the sidewall. So we have to get variances approved, uh, supply the insurance, and, um, you know, normally we're used to working with these, uh, HOAs, so they know us.

Um, so that takes care of, like, the top part. And, and, and the, the... One of the interesting things we see is, uh, the, the room over the garage. Um, people will call us just absolutely freezing. So, uh, even though it looks like drywall and there's some fiberglass in there, it's just not air-sealed. And I'm sure we've mentioned the blower door before, right?

Mm, yeah, it's come up a co- ... a couple times. Yeah. So the air leakage blower door test, uh, really confirms that we have some problems in the home. And, and really just driving by the home, if you see a home, a town home with a room over a garage, and you see the bottom of the window sill matches up with the top of the roof, there's generally a problem there. Mm. And they didn't, they didn't sheath the exterior of the wall. And the comfort problems, I mean, some of the raving fans we get are just people saying that, you know, "Will you fix that room by, by properly..."

Uh, you really have to cut open the garage ceiling and, um, really address it. And we can diagnose that with that blower door test, as we've talked about. There's ways to really identify where that leakage is happening. Um, it's kind of an interesting phenomenon of the blower door test is that when we do a, a single family home, a detached home, we're measuring the air leakage of the structure, which is to the outside.

But when we, when we do a blower door test on a, uh, an attached home, we're actually measuring the air leakage of the structure, so it can be some to the other units. So you may smell some bacon from the neighbor's house. Um, there are ways to really dial that in and, and find out what the actual unit leakage to outdoors is. That's interesting. I wonder, well, how do you do that? That- You would have to have some permission from your-

Neighbor, really. They're, they're- For the, for bacon cookers. Okay. All right. Yeah. It's, it's kind of called a... Well, it's called a guarded blower door test. You would set up blower doors in the other attached units and bring them up to the same pressure, and then the pressure in your target home would be, or the, the s- cubic foot per minute would be your leakage to outdoors. And there's, there's some other ways with some pressure testing. Um, but we found that it's just enough to, to get that blower door going. We can feel that leakage from outdoors and, and fix those homes.

And, and it, it's, it's amazing because the HOAs are a little bit, uh, kind of handcuffed 'cause they don't really wanna blast contractors that, that can fix the homes. Right. Right, right. Um- They've got a re- We've reached out- ... l- relationship there. Yeah.

They kind of wanna get you on a list, and so, you know, people are just going in and hodgepodging these things. And, um, we, we, uh, you know, we just love the results we're getting, the feedback we get from people once we, once we go and fix these homes. So have you ever gotten resistance from the neighbors when you go and you say, "Hey, you know, we'd like to do a blower door test to complete the blower door test next door here"? And maybe, I mean, m- maybe the next-door neighbor says, "Oh, what are you doing here? Maybe this isn't a bad idea.

Uh, c- why don't you do mine, too?" See, but you would think they would, uh, but we don't really go after the, the neighbors so much, and you get to, uh... You can't put up lawn signs, so you kind of have to come and park your truck and- You just creep. Yeah ... do your work and, and get out of Dodge.

But the, you know, the people that have these utility bills, the RG&Es, the NYSEGs, the National Grids, the NFT, they're still elible, eligible for these grants that we have access to, so you might as well, you know... I, I think you ought to live comfortably in your home, but that's j- that's just me. I'm biased. Don't be, don't be cold in your home. You wanna call the number, which is... What was it?

Refresh my memory. That is, uh, 585-270-5836. Actually I knew it. I wanted you to say it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Not, not a problem.

So, so you're talking about the grants, and let's, uh, just really quickly let's touch on there's a statewide organization. Uh, it's, uh, it's a government entity called NYSERDA.

NYSERDA. And let, let's talk about who they are and what they do and, and, uh, how they can help you. They are New York State Energy Research and Development Authority. So when you open up that, uh, utility bill, there's, uh, numerous charges. That's why it's typically about six pages, and one of those charges is, uh, goes into a systems benefit charge, and it's used to, um, uh, conserve energy throughout the, the state, uh, by folks that are, uh, rate payers. So, um, they, it make access to no-cost energy assessments. There's light energy assessments really for everybody, and if you're income eligible for one of two programs, you can get an advanced one, which is, uh, uh, offers that air leakage blower door test, which we, uh, recommend so highly, uh, and then also some, some combustion testing that, uh, really details, you know, how the, uh, combustion appliances are operating in the home. So the- So a great advantage here, and you've already paid for it. You've already paid for it. Yeah. It's, it's amazing. It's... People call up, and they say, "I want you to just run out to my home." I'm like, "I, I can run out to your home. You can send me pictures of your home, or we can do more of a well-thought-out plan." And, and it's kind of interesting. You know, people call and say, you know, If you want insulation, you know, you call an insulation contractor, or if you want heating, you call a heating contractor. Our system's a little, process is a little different. It's if you want your home to perform, you call an award-winning home performance contractor, and, and that's what we are.

Uh, we are, uh, winners of the Energy Star Contractor of the Year award for five years running. That's a national award. And so we're really looking at the whole house and how it interrelates because if you just buy insulation and your home isn't comfortable, whose, whose fault is that? You know, you ordered the insulation. So the people, uh, we, we always want them to decide what the end result is that they really want.

If you want your home to perform, um, then, then we have a true, a tried-and-true process that works. And, and I have an example. Uh, you know, recently, uh, a gentleman contacted us, and, and he wanted, uh, uh, to access the new IRA rebates and grants for electrification.

And I said, "Well, you know, tell. me a little bit about what's going on." "Well, I had this company out, and they, they insulated, uh, the, home, uh, uh, two years ago. Then I, I've got another company come out, and they said that, well, they didn't really do it' right, and they missed, uh, a wall, and they're gonna insulate that.

wall. And, and, uh, now, I wanna go through you and do the electrification." I said, "Well, tell me, how's the comfort of the home?" "It's not very comfortable. It's, it's, it's got some uncomfortable rooms." And so then I said,

"Well, what was your blower door reading?" Uh, not- Uh, didn't do a blower door. Yeah. None of them. They all said that I didn't really need one. And I'm like, "Uh, what they really said is they didn't wanna carry one into your home." Or maybe they don't do them. So exactly. And, and it's really, we have to have this conversation. It's, it's... It, reminds me of being in Canada some years ago and, uh, sitting at a, a blackjack table, one of my pastimes, and, uh, uh, the gentleman next to me said, um, "You know, how long does it. take to get an MRI in the States?" And I, said,

"It's really..." You know, a, a guy who's, myself, had about five knee surgeries. I said, "It takes about five to seven days to get on' the schedule." And he said,

"My daughter needs an MRI, and it's nine months up here." He said, "They just go and do surgery. You know, they just open you up and go f- try to figure out what the problem is without looking." Wow. And that's, you know...

That was 15 years ago. Hopefully things, have changed up there, but- Not so much. Yeah. Not from what I know. Right. So, and, and it's kind of the same thing with home performance. Do you wanna just do surgery, or would you, should we do an MRI and kind of figure out what you need?

Yeah. And- Shot, the shot in the dark, not always a good idea. So that's, that's our system. Um, it's, it's tried and true, that people get online and, and write us wonderful reviews, that they're happy with the work, and then they're happy with the results, and that's, that's what we're looking for is results. We want you to remember five years down the road- The Wise Home Energy came to your home, developed the plan, implemented it, and you've got long-term comfort and long-term savings. And you've got benefits coming to you, uh, through the state because you've been paying for it continuously with each utility bill that you pay every month through

NYSERDA. So they developed these, uh, these tested programs which you guys specialize in, and that points the way to what you really need to not be cold in your home, and not be warm in your home and sweating in the summer. Right. Absolutely. And we, we bring it all together. Um, we... One of the things we're, we're... It's kind of a joke, we're not good at, we're not good at selling. We're, we're only good at solutions.

So if you're afraid that you're gonna get the kitchen table clothes and somebody's gonna strong-arm you, y- y- we're just gonna show it to you and you decide if you wanna make those improvements.

It- it's your decision. We know what's gonna work. Um, we're not gonna install something that's not gonna work. We turn down work like that. People request this, nope, we won't do it that way.

Um, it's tried and true building science. You know, recently I had a guy call me up and we were kind of going back and forth on a crawl space and, uh, you know, kind of gave him some ballpark, uh... And he's like, "No, I just want the floor done." And I said, "Well, no, that's, that's not the way it's done. We won't even do it. I won't, I won't come out to your home-" Yeah, because you're gonna be dissatisfied. Yeah. It's not gonna work. It's not the right way. It's not building science.

Um, but if it makes you feel good, then, then go ahead and insulate it, but we won't do that, so. Right. And, uh, by the way, it's important to note here, I think at this juncture, you're not just a diagnostic company.

You also do the work. You take the steps that are necessary. You do the insulation. You do, you know, whatever the technical fix is. Right. And sometimes that can involve new hardware, right? Absolutely. Soup to nuts. We, um, from an insulation standpoint, we pretty much have the gamut of, uh, insulation products. We, uh, use spray foam products. We use, um, uh, cellulose products. We have a, a specialty product called injection foam.

Um, and so we, we really customize that, uh, uh, solution for that home. Each home is different. You can stand on that street and look down the, look down those houses, especially in the wintertime, and see the different snow melts, and that's why, that's why that diagnostic is, is so important. And, and so once we're done with that, then we, we wanna look at the HVAC and properly size that HVAC to that, that well-performing home. And if you do it the opposite way, uh, like the gentleman who just called me with three contractors out to his home, um, it, it, it's not cheap to undo it. It, it really doesn't... It's one of the things that

I struggle with, is that it's hard to fix other people's work. It's because you spent 90% of your budget doing it wrong, it doesn't mean there's 10% left to fix it. It's really, we gotta- 100% left to fix. We gotta c- Sometimes

110%, probably. Exactly. Sometimes it costs money to, to undo it. So that's... We just want people making educated decisions. Um, really try to provide that information, you know, through shows like this, uh, you know, on the website with, uh, information so they can make, uh, good decisions on their home 'cause this stuff lasts a, a, a long time and, and will make a difference or it won't make a difference. Yeah. And the obvious fix is not invariably the accurate. Like for example, somebody's... The, the, the home's cold. It's drafty.

Uh, so y- y- I'm sure you've gotten the calls from somebody who says, "Just, uh, let's upgrade the furnace. Let's put a bigger one in." Right.

Right. Yeah. It's, it's... We, we actually sometimes have to turn those down because they call up telling us, "I want this size furnace, and that's what I'm getting." And we say, "Well, it's not gonna fit your duct work, so it's gonna shorten the life of it. It's not gonna save you any money, regardless of how efficient it is, 'cause if it's not sized to the duct work and to the home, it's just gonna be... It's gonna be basically the sound of an airplane taking off in your home."

Right. Exactly. All that air velocity and- Yeah. And it's, and it's like blood pressure on, on your system. It's gonna shorten the life of your system. So, um, all this stuff comes together.

Uh, we can't really come out and, and do it for no cost. This is not an estimate where, oh, give me the length times the width and, and, uh,

I can, you know, tell you how much the roof is gonna cost. This is a system, and we have to look at the whole system. So we're flying through winter here.

Uh, y- you mentioned earlier on in the program, Jeff Flaherty, that, uh, uh, you know, it's been kind of a mild one- Yes ... at least so far. But it's important to remember that, uh, here' in Rochester, New York, and Western New York, March is the, cruelest month. Uh, how many times have we thought, "Boy, we're gonna way scot-free this year," and all of a sudden we get our comeuppance. Yeah. So are, are you still able to, uh...

You're, you're still doing evaluations, and you're still doing the blower door tests- Mm-hmm ... and still installing and fixing and correcting and helping people stay warm in their home? Absolutely. Yeah, you have to, uh... We do these year-round. There's, you know, there's the myth that, oh, it ha- needs to be cold or it needs to be warm.

Um, we put that house into wintertime conditions. Uh, right now it is the winter. We close everything up. Uh, you do wanna latch your windows. Latching your windows is a mechanism that tightens that seal all around that window. So sometimes we come into the homes and just tightening up their, latching their windows is, uh, e- energy savings.

Uh, but once we, um, turn on that blower door, then we can use infrared cameras, um, theater fog, dia- diagnostic smoke we call it, and that- Theater fog. That's that, that's that like dry ice fog that you usually have at- Right ... at school dances. Right.

Absolutely. It's, it's, uh, it's like vaping almost, right? It's got a kind of a glycol and a heat source and, uh, but, uh, just a little bit more like you were going to the, uh, opera or something like that, and, or a rock concert I w- I would probably more be apt to s- s- uh, show up at.

Um, but those things, uh, with the quantity of the blower door and with the infrared and the Diagnostic smoke that really tells us what's going on. So we can do that year-round. So pretty much the starting point, uh, in almost all cases when somebody calls you up is the blower door test, right? Right. Is that a fair assumption? I mean, it, it is something we wanna know.

One of, one of the first things we wanna know is what problems are you trying to solve? Um, we, we get calls, "I just wanna attic insulation." "How come?" "Well, somebody told me, I needed attic insulation." Wow.

So I... That's wild. I, you know, I just- Always doing debates with the, uh, brother-in-law who's not present. Right. "Oh, my brother-in-law, he's, he's really good at this, and, he says we need blah, blah, blah, blah."

Yeah. Yeah. Did, uh, did somebody tell you how much you should spend on that insulation that you're supposed to have? So, um, yeah, you get... We get a lot of, the, "Well, my feet are cold," and, and, you do start at the top.

So y- by stopping the airflow at the top, that can make your feet warm. It, it' all kind of depends. Um, generally it's not fixing one particular thing and expecting the whole house to improve. Sometimes we gotta look at the whole house. Uh, if you can't stop that air from leaving, you're gonna have some comfort issues that an, HVAC system will not be able. to overcome and compensate for. So we're always encountering new people who've just, uh, stumbled upon this program and maybe have never heard of Wise Home Energy.

Let's just quick describe for them what the blower door test is. 'Cause I know some of our regular listeners already know, uh, but, uh, some folks don't. Sure. The, the blower door test is, um... It's, a frame that goes... We open up your, your, typically your front door. It's a frame that, uh, temporarily sits in the same place as your front door with a, a shroud on' it. Looks like

Christmas. Uh, they're all typically usually red. And we put a fan in there. We, we set the house up, so it's not for, uh, novices. We have to turn down combustion appliances. They cannot fire during the test. We cannot have fireplaces, wood-burning, uh, fireplaces burn within 24 hours. Um, it's also tricky because people wanna get up and run out the door. So when you' open a door, it alters the test. Straight out. Yeah. So we really sit down and, uh, watch some TV. It, it's, not really loud. Um, and, then, and then we walk around the home, um, using those diagnostic tools. So the pressure, the fan gets turned on to a known pressure of 50 pascals, which is equivalent to a 20 mile per, hour wind on- each side of the house.

So recently we just had a storm. We had some prolonged 30 mile per hour winds and, and, people really felt it. Obviously, um, you know, down the road in Buffalo it was a blizzard. Here locally it was, uh, just a, a catastrophic cold event with 30 mile per hour winds and, and people felt it. I mean, we, we got some crazy calls on those, on those days. Uh- So, so how long does this test take? So it can take, um, you know, roughly, once it's set up, roughly 15 minutes. You can go longer depending on the complexity of the home. Um, you can alter some zones to kind of see how leaky it is and really quantify it. So if you have, uh, rooms over garages, there's some, so there's some extra zonal pressure testing that can be done, um, depending on the, the trouble spots in the home, what the client's desires are. So 15 to

30 minutes. Okay. So it's not hours. Yeah. Uh, so this, then that's over with, and you depart with that information, and you develop a plan. So we develop a plan. We, we, we quantify that for the client in today's brand new home terms. So, uh, today's brand new home, uh, falls into a, a three air change per hour. If it doesn't meet that, uh, tightness level, you will not get a CO on a brand new built home. Okay. Wow. Um, so and that's, and that can be...

That sounds great, but how do you match that up with, with the heating system? We get, you know, we were talking town homes, we get calls of homes that are just two years old, and they don't wanna spend any money because it's a two-year-old home. They think it's... But they've got ice on their roof, um, and they're uncomfortable in their home. So that blower door has to be matched up to the home, and then it has to be matched up to the load sizing of the

HVAC system. So do you get into, like, with new construction like that? Have you, like, changed out duct work and- You can. Those are some of the- Wow ... those are some of the solutions. Yeah, and it's, and it's just not that, um... When they're, when they're building to a code, it's just checking a box, right?

And so we're more, we're more retrofitting to a standard, and our standard is we want, uh, temperatures within the whole home to be within five degrees. We don't want high temperature swings.

Uh, that leaves for uncomfortable, unless we're zoning with, uh, some type of zoning product or, uh, ductless mini-splits. Um, but we want that set standard.

That blower door, that can be tight, but it can still leak to the attic. So if the leakage is to the attic, now we got more potential for moisture, mold- Ice ... rot- Yeah ...

ice. Um, so it's, it's, it's not an end-all, be-all number. It's gotta kind of be matched up b- from the quantitative standpoint and then also, um, directionally where that, where that air is leaking from. Okay, so now what have we learned, folks?

Well, what we've learned is code does not necessarily mean you're gonna be comfortable and have an efficient, uh, plant there. Code is the minimum that the home can be built to. That's it. So you really wanna, you wanna bypass code. Not bypass code. You wanna exceed it, you know? That's just the minimum. Some of these codes are decades old, right? Yes, yes. Absolutely, and the ter- interpretation gets a little, uh, uh, challenging and, and it really like, they, they tighten the homes up and then they say, "Well, you need ventilation." And the reality is, so we, so we have bath fans, we have ventilation systems, and that's great. Um, but really a, a more advanced design is let's measure the indoor air quality and then use the ventilation to make that indoor q- air quality the best it can be.

So we don't need to ventilate a home if there's nothing bad going on in the home. Um, so as the technology changes, there are devices out there that are already doing this, where we can bring in fresh air when we need it-

Um, for, you know, times of, um, you know, terrible indoor air quality, and that's what we want. And, you know, I, I think we, uh, you know, the topic of the news, uh, you know, seems to be some of these banning of things, uh, you know, with the electrification banning of, uh- Gas stoves. Yeah, I know ... gas stoves and gas appliances and, and I'm, you know, proud to work in the energy efficiency, uh, business. I don't,

I'm not in the idea of banning things. I, I think free choice and let the market decide. If it's good enough product and we're, we're... If we wanna incentivize it with financial incentives, then let's do it that way.

Um, that, the lesson in the stoves is, is it indoor air quality? Is it the gas burning? Is it the things we're burning in the pan?

Um, you know, if, if you keep going down that road, then we won't be able to, to burn certain things in that pan. If you want a well-done piece of steak, then you should be able to have a well-done piece of steak. Exactly. So. Yeah. Hey, so here's a funny question I know I've never asked you.

Have you ever gotten involved in a blower door situation with new construction? Because, you know, being mindful of the fact that code is a minimum- Right ... and may not, uh, translate to comfort and efficiency. Have you ever gotten involved in, at that level? So we, um, so we will offer that service, and what we do is we come out for a fee, and generally they're, they're one-offs. They're people that have built their own home, and they're unfamiliar with how they, how it works, and now they have to get it approved. And so we offer a service where we come out and do that blower door. We do the calculation, and then we, uh, we, with that cost, we offer an hour of consultation that,

"Hey, you're not at the blower door. I'm gonna follow you around. I'm gonna tell you what you need to seal. You can seal it right now, and you can get to that number, or, you know, we can come back and retest." Um, so we do offer that. Well, you want to avoid redoing everything. Right. You know, the, the, the plant is in there. The, you know, the HVAC unit is there. Yeah. The, you know, the duct work has been installed.

Yeah. Uh, better to be proactive, yes? Absolutely. Yeah. We, uh, we had one a few years ago where the gentleman, he just couldn't, he couldn't pass code and we, you know, we had to come out and, you know, we had to offer him blower door assisted air sealing. We said, "We're gonna... This is the number you gotta get to."

Uh, we had talked to the code folks and said, "Yeah, we, you know, there's no bypassing this. You have to get to this number." So, um, it, it's, it's kinda more custom type work. It's more, it's more of, like we say on our retrofit jobs, plan it out ahead- Yeah ... and you won't end with these problems. of like, how do I get my CFM?

All right. Well worth it, certainly. Okay. So let's give them the contact information here as we wrap up the program. For Wise Home Energy, your host is, uh, Jeff Flaherty, who's been doing this a while. Absolutely. So it's, you can call or text.

It's 585-270-5836. Uh, we'd certainly wanna have a conversation and see what your goals are and let you know if it's a good fit or we'd, you know, guide you in another direction to get your goals. But usually we, uh, we can come up with a custom plan for you. Yeah, this is a good step to take, folks, before you, you know, pick up the phone and you call an HVAC person and say, "Yeah, I wanna replace my furnace. It's just not, uh, as efficient as I think it should be, and we're not as comfortable as I think we should be." Uh, so you wanna call, once again, Jeff

Flaherty. 585-270-5836. Wise Home Energy. Don't be cold in your home. Jeff, thanks so much for stopping by. Always good to chat. Thank you, Bob. All right. And this has been a paid program on the WYSL stations. See you next time.