The Split System Water Heater That Changes the Game

This podcast is brought to you by Open Door Mission, restoring hope and changing lives. OpenDoorMission.com. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is time once again for the Wise Home Energy Show on, your voice of liberty, WYSLWLEA.

Pure energy. And in the studio, we have, uh, Jeff Flaherty from Wise Home Energy, the host with the most. Hey, Bob. Thank you for having me back. Thanks for showing up. Yeah. Otherwise, I'd have to do this all by myself, and people would fall asleep. They say it's half the battle just showing up. That's exactly right. That's so true. Who was that? Woody Allen said that, I think. I don't know. I like it. I notice it everywhere. Uh, we get calls of people that say, uh, "Yeah, we're calling you because the other contractor we called, they, they never showed up," so. Isn't that a, isn't that a maddening, you know, when you make an appointment and, you know, you make a hole in your day and you sit there and, uh, no call. It's amazing. No show. It's amazing. Yeah. So show up, and then, and then do a good job.

Um, uh, so a little story in the news about energy. I, I haven't, uh, delved into the details, but it says that

New York, uh, we're third on. the list of highest energy costs across the great, uh, country of, uh, ours. So I,

I, I presume California's number one. I suspect Massachusetts might be number two. So we know these costs are rising quite, uh, feverishly in New York. People call all the time, and so one of the things that we always say is, "We can't really control those costs rising. But what we can do at Wise Home Energy is we can take your 12-mile-per-gallon, uh, vehicle, and we can look to move that to a 40-mile-per-gallon vehicle.

So we, we can't control the cost of that unit, but we can help you lower how much you use and still have, the same standard of living, the same comfort in h- the home." And, uh, those programs are there. Uh, we have a tried and true process of, uh, diagnosing a home and, and coming up. with a plan, uh, with our experience of homes that' we've already done similar to the ones that, uh, are like yours, so. How long you been doing this now? We have, uh, ... This is our 16th year.

Uh, and, uh, it's, uh, it's fun. We got a whole host of, uh, styles of homes that we've been able to dramatically improve, uh, happy clients, and, and we love it. And, you know, sometimes people call up, with their, their game plan, and, a client emailed the other day and he said, uh, "Yeah, I'm, I'm eligible for this program, and I wanna use that program, and I have an older home.

And, uh, I, I ... All. the windows are leaking. I'm gonna need to replace all the windows, and, and particularly up, in the third floor, uh, where I have my home office. It's finished, and those windows are gonna need to be replaced."

And, and I just replied back and said, "You know, it's, uh, counterintuitive, but windows are very costly with not a great payback. We' advise diagnosing the home, figuring out what the home needs, what your goals are, and then matching the rebates. But don't chase the rebates because that can lead to a lot of heartache and some, and some really bad design that has to be uninstalled once it's in." You know- So ... buy four windows, get one. free, one of those deals.

So don't be in a rush to do that. It's a systemic approach, is it not? I mean, it's like a- Yeah ... a logical approach. Yeah, absolutely. And so, so throw out all the, the old assumptions about, "Oh, the windows have gotta go. I need to insulate more.

I need a bigger furnace." Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah. All that stuff. And luckily he was receptive to it. And, uh, if you Google online, uh, excuse me, the, uh, uh, windows, uh, the Federal Trade Commission cease and desist letters, they used to send them out because window companies were making such outlandish claims that the FTC had to step in and say, "You, you can't say that unless you have proof that that window is gonna, uh, cure gout and things like that."

So, um, so we do that, and, you know, recently we, uh, installed a, a neat system. It's a split system heat pump water heater, and that was a, a great fit for the client. It's got a, a ton of advantages where we've, uh, talked about heat pump water heaters in the past where they sit in the basement, uh, and they, they exchange the air, and they're kinda loud, and, and they create the hot water. Uh, but this particular system is called the, uh, ecological Omni water heater. So it has an outdoor condenser, and then the water heater is inside and uses that refrigerant to, uh, heat up that, uh, water.

And very efficient and has a ton of benefits, and that's what we wanna do. We wanna match the needs of the client, uh, with the right, uh, product.

And so we are lucky enough to have in studio here, we have the vice president of ecological, uh, Carl Uthe.

Welcome, Carl. Thank you, gentlemen. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Bob. Yeah. So Carl, you've, uh, you've been in energy efficiency for a couple months now? Or how long has it been?

Well, my personal career has been since 2001. Beautiful. Uh, you know, and I did a lot of work with NYSERDA designing energy efficiency programs and implementing them across the country, focused mostly in the Northeast.

But, uh, I went to the dark side into the private sector, you know, with product development and manufacturing. Very neat. Very neat. So this, this product that we recently installed, um- You are, you are, uh, the vice president of the company. Tell us about this particular unit that we installed.

Well, I'm glad you asked, Jeff. You, you kind of nailed it when you talked about, uh, an integrated heat pump water heater, which is common now. It's when the heat pump's on top of the tank, and you put the whole unit, it's a unitary, integrated, whatever you wanna call it, you put the whole unit in a basement or in a pantry or wherever your water heater is.

And the issue that we saw with that is that it creates a cooling effect, which affects your shoulder seasons. In winter, it gives you a perception that there's cold air blowing, so you just naturally turn your HVAC system up. Uh, we also found that in smaller homes, like manufactured homes, mobile homes, multifamily, typical heat pump water heaters just don't fit physically or have enough airflow.

So we looked around the country, and we looked around the world, and we saw globally they're shifting to split systems, and we saw a lack in the US, so we designed our own from top to bottom to meet the demands of small spaces specifically. But what we wound up doing is creating one of the highest performing heat pump water heaters on the market, uh, and we designed it for mansions or for mobile homes.

Beautiful. And so Bob, it's kind of similar to a, a... If we think of a, a ductless heat pump- Mm-hmm ... we have a unit on a wall, which is the, providing the service that we want, hot and cold air- Right ... where this unit provides, the unit inside provides the water. Uh, outside is a, uh, condenser, and, uh, quiet is, uh, maybe an understatement. Um- Oh, yeah, definitely.

Especially, you know, I was on the job site with Wise Home Energy, and I have to say, this is not pandering to Jeff. Uh, I've been all over the country for install day. I show up on the first install for a contractor. I train them. I talk them through it. It's not very complicated, but it's unique. And I have seen all kinds of contractors, but I've never seen a more professional group than

Wise Home Energy. And I'm not saying the other guys I deal with aren't professional, I'm just saying Wise Home, I was floored at how fast and efficient they were. 'Cause usually the first install takes a while. These guys did it in half the time, and probably the best quality I've ever seen. Thank you. Yeah. But it's, it's okay. You can' pander to Jeff. That's true. He, he likes that. That's- He appreciates it. So as a principle, if I've got this right, is it's the same principle that would apply to any heat pump, except it's, it's dealing with water instead of air. Have I got that right? Yeah. I mean, the refrigerant is, is the key, and the refrigerant in a, a unitary unit is in the basement, and it's pulling out of the air, where this refrigerant line goes outdoors. Um, so safety, uh, no gas to the product. Uh, noise, the indoor unit has no noises to it. Uh, the, the condenser outside, it was kind of funny, on this particular home, it was next to, uh, I didn't get the age of the air conditioning condenser, but that thing is your old traditional ba-boom.

Oh, it sounded like a freight train. It really did. It was. It was loud. And here, about 10 feet away, was this, uh, beautiful new, uh, uh, Omni condenser and you- You couldn't even tell it was running, honestly. You couldn't really tell.

Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. But one other thing about the split systems that's really interesting, you, Jeff, 'cause you correctly described it, the refrigerant goes through the wall. In the Northeast, we battle this stigma of split system heat pump water heaters, 'cause there are a couple other brands, but they run water through the wall. So your, your drinking water goes outside, gets heated up from the outdoor unit, and gets sent back into the house. That does create freeze risk. Uh, you could put heat trace tape on it or, or all kinds of things, but if you have a power outage, those things don't work. Yeah.

So ours is very unique in that we run the refrigerant, and we use a low global warming potential refrigerant. It's below the federal level of 700, and it's a non-flammable refrigerant, so we're really proud of that as well. Beautiful. Especially going into small homes.

Yeah. And, um, incentives, NYSERDA, we're always talking about NYSERDA incentives. NYSERDA, uh, incentivizes these heat pump, uh, water heaters? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, the biggest, um, criteria for incentives for NYSERDA is ENERGY STAR listing. And to give you an example, the ENERGY STAR listing for a split system requires a uniform energy factor of 2.2, and we crush it at a 4.23. That makes us more efficient than just about every heat pump water heater out there. Thanks. So while we set out to design this for just mobile homes to fill a niche, we wound up with the highest performing heat pump water heater designed for all homes in a 50 gallon, or 80 gallon tank.

That's beautiful. And, uh, I think you were telling me that, uh, you've got a, a, a nice, uh, pro, uh, project out in California, which California has some really strict energy efficiency, uh, uh, standards. So I, I think you had a, was it, a multifamily complex that, uh- There's a- ... ordered a lot of them? Yeah, there's a couple of those going on. California's a big market for us because, like New York, they're pushing for electrification, and they're banning gas appliances. You know, and in New York, you can't build a house now with piped gas. Uh, so California's ahead of the game, and we're in multifamily buildings of 160 units, 168 units, and they're finding it's really the only way to put heat pump water heaters in these small spaces. Uh, 'cause otherwise, if you put the integrated tower in, you just have all the negative complaints from the customer of the cold air. Yeah. The two gallons of condensate you have to manage with a, with a heat... Or excuse me, with a, uh, condensate pump, which adds load and noise. And of course, uh, in California, they don't wanna hear it. Yeah. So it's, it's really about the noise. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's exciting stuff, and, um, we, you know, we look, uh, at Wise Home. Energy, we're looking for this cutting edge, uh, equipment.

And, we wanna offer the best that fits the client's needs, takes advantage of, the incentives that are out there so. that we can offer them, uh, the best, um- Uh, deal and, the best energy efficiency for that particular device. So Karl, any, any particular, uh, concerns environ- uh, uh, I'm talking about environmental, the, uh, the, the temperature range, uh, dealing in the, a northeastern state versus, you know, California- Yeah, that- Uh, with the operation of, these things. That is a, a great question.

Uh, I mentioned the other type that uses water through the wall, where that is a huge concern. Of course, we' don't have that. Mm-hmm. But then you ask, well, what top... What's the operating temperature range of the heat pump? So we operate from five degrees Fahrenheit up to 120 degrees Fahrenheit with the heat pump. Anything beyond that, we have backup electric elements, so we're a, a true hybrid heat pump water heater, so we don't care how cold it. gets. Uh- Yes, but the electric elements are so far out of the typical, you know, temperature swing range. Yeah. They're not- That doesn't, it's not a factor much. Correct. They're not used often. They're used under high demand to help the customer regain water, and, they're only used in those really cold below five degree days. Nice. And, uh, so many people look at the upfront cost of a product, and then we know, it's efficient, so the, uh, the annual usage will be considerably, uh, less cost than, than straight electric or gas.

What, uh, what do we have for a warranty? Many people are, uh, concerned these day and ages in our throwaway society. What type of warranty are we looking at? Well, the good news is, uh, heat pump water heaters, especially a split system, they're like any other heat pump. They're gonna last a while. A- a- and because the split system has larger components and operates smoother, we're able to put a 10-year warranty on these. Mm-hmm. Which is much longer than most heat pump water heaters or water heaters in general.

But to the efficiency, especially in New York with our rates creeping up, you said, we're number three, that, yeah, you're right on there. You know, uh, when you install an ecological Omni, it saves so much energy, it could be up to $800 a year in, in savings. Wow. And even with gas, about $600 a year.

And if you're heating your water with a propane, it's almost $1,000 a year. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Um- And, and you guys have been around, like you mentioned, you've been doing this since 2000, uh, 2001. Uh, and there's no fear of, you know, you're gonna install this thing and, uh, you know, they get an intercept when they call you next year 'cause they need service on the thing. Uh, number's no longer in service.

You guys are here to stay. Yeah. That is true. And, uh, uh, ecological hasn't been around since 2001, but, uh, we've been around since the '80s in one form or another. We have a sister company who's the basis of our, our company called Bits,

Limited, and they started out doing, um, diagnostics and repair of MRI equipment. Then we moved into inventing energy efficiency devices. So since the '80s we've been doing this. The ecological Omni's been in, uh, service for two years.

But the point is, Ecological's a 30-year-old company you've probably never heard of. Uh, but we're gonna be around a long time. Nice. Got it. Okay. But you've got the experience and the expert- Absolutely. And you, and this is your development.

Yes. Uh, you know, a lot of heat pump water heaters out there are just, uh, rebranded. So we have two types of heat pump water heaters. We do have one of those integrated all-in-one units, and we call it the ecological UNOS, and that is actually made by Midea. Midea is the world's largest appliance manufacturer.

And we, uh, the first company to private label the Midea, then followed, um, Bosch, and then Rinnai.

Same platform. But the ecological Omni is special. It's different. We literally designed that from the top to the bottom. We didn't just pull that off a shelf and private label it. We personally designed this product.

It's nice. Now, you know, it was f- interesting. I've known Karl for probably about five years and, and, uh, when he was talking about developing this, he's like, "What do you think?" And

I' said, "You know, there's some applications in New York that this makes a ton of sense." So as he said, the mobile homes, because, uh, the traditional unitary needs a lot of space, it's gonna have sound, uh, issues, and it's gonna cool the space down a little bit.

So that traditionally would go in an unconditioned basement or semi-conditioned basement. But there are a lot of homes that are built on slabs where the furnace and the hot water tank are just off the kitchen, and, um, th- those are, those are challenging for sound, for safety. Um, so there's, uh, uh, a, you know, a real good opportunity, uh, for a lot of homes, uh, n- that n- that's really the only option, uh, or the, the best option. And then, uh, traditional homes, uh, this is a great option to get rid of the sound and, um, and the, and the cold air, uh, that, that can blow out of these things. And so, uh, huge opportunities.

Uh, you know, I' was excited when he told me. about it' a few years a- ago and, uh, and, uh, hey, sometimes people make these claims that they're gonna come up with something, but, uh, Karl and his company actually did, so that's, that's pretty neat.

So I'd love to tell you that Wise Home Energy is the exclusive, uh, installer, but Karl told me that that's not actually the case.

So- Uh, so people can call their, uh, local plumbing and HVAC, uh, contractors if, uh, if we're, they're outside of Wise Home Energy's territory. And, um, these things are, uh, readily available across the, uh, US. And, uh, Karl, do you guys have a website, uh, in case they needed to, to search out some information on the product? Yes, absolutely. There's great stuff on there from, uh, a calculator that shows you your payback, uh, over time and your annual spend, all the way to installation manuals and, uh, user guides and the energy guide, and that's www.eco-logical.com.

So what's the, uh, reaction you get from the property owners once this, uh, this system is in and it's, operating? Well, you know what? The property owners, we, we built this thing with one thing in mind. Customers want hot water.

That's number one. Number two, they do wanna save some energy. And number three, they don't wanna have sacrifice. So once you put in, uh, one of our split systems, they get all three of those things. Where we believe integrated towers, they're like a CFL light bulb. They give you the energy savings, they give you some hot water, but there's some sacrifice around there.

Hmm, compromises. Yes. And with the split system, that's not it. You set it, you forget it. They never have to think about it, and they never hear it or feel it. Yeah. So there's no customer sacrifice. So the hot water supply, is this like a water maker where it's just, like an endless supply of hot water? No, not quite. Um- Or is it a tank? There's a tank involved? It's a tank.

Okay. It's a tank. So you have a tank indoors, just like an electric water heater. Mm-hmm. But we designed it specifically narrow. It's only 18 and a half inches wide, so it fits in places like mobile homes and, and small apartments. Of course, the 80 gallon's a bit bigger. Um, but it's extremely quiet and they, they don't even know it's operating. But there's a lot of magic tricks we can do. There's a user app. You can increase the tank temperature, which gives you greater recovery and first-hour rating. There's a lot of benefits to heat pump water heaters in general, but split systems really are the transition of water heating.

That's neat. And, uh, you know, Wise Home, Energy, uh, you know, we're, we're, we're growing. Uh, it's a controlled growth, so, uh, we're starting to, uh, dabble in some, some, multifamily projects. We just got a, um, a multifamily project on Lake Avenue that's, that's pretty exciting. And, and so in the future, um, this is a product that, uh, we are certainly going to, uh, be looking at and, and offering to these multifamily owners because it, it' just offers a lot of solutions for some s- tricky install and tricky locations. So, um, a pretty, pretty neat product, and that's, you know, just something that. Wise

Home Energy is, is always trying to do. We're, we're not? looking for gimmicky things. We're not looking for, uh, you know, the, Ron Popeil set it. and, forget it. Uh, we, we want something that's, uh, long term and not just a cliche, and so Karl's, uh, company offers that product. So we're, we're excited about it. No pocket fisherman.

No, no, no, no- ShamWow. Right. No kitchen magician. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Gotcha. So- And it makes julienne fries. That's right. So yeah, it's ... And so that's, you know, what we're doing at Wise Home Energy. We're looking ... Uh, you know, many people call up and say, "I want this and I want that. I want insulation, and I,

I want, uh, a, a new heating system, and I want a hot water system." And, uh, we, we wanna ask a few more questions. Um, we wanna make sure,

'cause nobody really wants to buy those things. They want to solve, uh, problems. They want water, hot water when they need it. They want, uh, comfortable second floor rooms when they, uh, when they need it. And, uh, they don't want ice hanging off their roof.

Mm-hmm. So we wanna, we wanna ... Our s- process is a little slower. People call up and they want us to run right out and, uh, give them a quote for, uh, this, this thing that, with a tape measure. And, and the, reality is, uh, we want to look a little deeper.

We wanna look, uh, ... We all know somebody who's had an MRI or a CAT scan that found something that the, the other person, uh, doctor doing telemedicine couldn't really find. We wanna dig a little deeper, and this is a product that fits right in, uh, to our, uh, wheelhouse of making this an efficient home, a comfortable home, and a durable home. So those are the type of things, um- You, know, Jeff, I had a weird question for you. How does a heat pump water heater affect a blower door test or, or an' overall energy assessment as it's blowing cold air into the house? Great question. So, it, um, it' really should have no effect. Uh, when you swap out a traditional gas, uh, appliance, uh, a natural draft gas appliance, that vent pipe is a three to four-inch vent pipe going up a chimney or up a metal B vent. That's air leakage that's leaking out of your home all the time, whether that hot water tank is on or not. In fact, some years ago they made what was called the thermal, um, oh, what's it called? The thermal vent. So the metal would stay closed, and then when the hot water tank would heat up, it would open up. Well, they found that as the metal kept expanding and contracting, soon it would fail and cold close. Wow. So that was dangerous. So we, we've, been always trying to find energy efficiency things. So as you take the natural draft hot water tank out and, and replace it with, um, an, an ecological tank, you've now saved that air, leakage that happens all throughout the year. So that, that's impressive.

So ... I know there's a lot of folks out there who, uh, you know, they've had the water. heater. sitting in the basement since, I don't know, you know, 1999 or whatever, and, uh, it's, it's getting time to, replace it. And, uh, I, I don't know if you guys have gone out and priced the installation of, like, the good old AO

Smith, uh, you know, gas water. heater. Yeah. But, uh, prepare for your jaw to hit the, uh, the tabletop. Well, you're on, you're onto something that' I think is gonna be, uh, very interesting over the next 10 years. I, I think, um, labor, uh, I was driving by, a, a bus station the other day and looking at the hourly rate and I thought, "You know, this is considerably higher than it was five years ago. This is unbelievable."

Uh, there's clearly a labor shortage. Maybe the colleges knew it years ago because the colleges sort of knew that students weren't gonna be coming. We're having some population- Uh, declines and, and so there's less people in the workforce and, and we told everybody to go to college so that they could, uh, do. collegiate type things. And- Yes, sit in front of a, sit in front of a monitor and click a- Yeah ... click a mouse. Uh, that's- Yeah. So the people that w- have the highest PhD degrees are, are gonna be shocked when they order things to get installed at their house, right? And so yeah, it is, it's gonna be an interesting time. So Karl, uh, for HVAC, uh, contractors locally, uh, you know, w- you have some different distribution channels.

Uh, I, there's, there's national and, uh, and then regional places they can, they can get this. Uh- Yeah ... you wanna talk a little bit about those? Sure, absolutely. And before I hit that name, just you mentioned HVAC contractors. It's funny because we designed this for plumbers in mind first and foremost. Mm-hmm. Which we realized quickly HVAC contractors are gravitating towards it. So it has quick connects.

Plumbers don't have to worry about an EPA 608 license or any of that stuff, but HVAC contractors are right, at home with this technology 'cause it's like a ductless mini split. Yeah. So, um, there's a lot of HVAC companies, um, who are interested in this, and if they are, even plumbing companies, PBS Supply carries them in most of New York State other than downstate. Uh, they don't go down there. Okay. Uh, but, uh, yeah, so it could be purchased there, but it could also be purchased right through your preferred contractor if you're a customer. Beautiful.

And if you're here, locally and you'd like to make the wise choice, you, can call Wise Home Energy at 585-270-5836. You' can also, uh, visit us on the web at, uh, wisehomeenergy.com. I, I did see an early, uh, weather report. Uh, about six months from now? we're expecting some 20 degree weather and a lot of snow.

Yeah. So I don't know. And I think it's gonna last for roughly, uh, s- 90 to 120 days. So- You are better than the almanac. I think so . Very good. I think so. So- This is the old Jeff's Almanac, is that right? That's right. That is . The Wise

Almanac. So, uh, expect winter to be coming again and, uh, you can have an efficient hot water tank with the ecological. Uh, you can have a efficient home, uh, when you call Wise Home Energy and, and we'll, we'll map out what your goals are.

And, um, there are times that we, we have that initial conversation and, and we find it's not a good fit, and we'll try to guide you to, uh, maybe the solution that's best for you. Um, if it's- They might also wanna consider a blower door test and get an evaluation.

Love that blower door test, Bob. Just can't, can't get enough of that thing. I was doing one last night and, um, you know, the, the, the technology's great now. You, you, uh, you have an app. I can control it on my phone, so I can walk around the house. And so it quantifies how much air leaks out of the home, but, uh, the qual- you know, the quantitatively, but qualitatively we can see sorta where it's leaking out of the home. I was at a home recently that, uh, my rep went and he said, "Well, everything's insulated." And he was right, and it was for a certain program. And I said, "Well, the blower door's still humongous."

And so I'll, I love to run out to those homes and do the double check. And, and they had s- 15 recessed lights in the ceiling.

Uh, this was a floored attic, which this is, this is more unusual to see this. And they, those, those things were leaking and, uh, that's a lot of recessed lights up into a ceiling.

I'm glad that fad is over. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Mostly. Well, that's, uh, pretty much the show here. Let's, uh, give them some contact information so they can s- seek you out and get more information, Jeff. Sure. Wise Home Energy. Uh, wisehomeenergy.com and

585-270-5836. Karl, thanks for being in the studio. Thanks, gentlemen. Appreciate it. And there's another show for you to listen to on podcast if you missed the broadcast at wysl1040.com.

The Wise Home Energy Show on The Voice of Liberty. See you next time.