Heat Pumps, Oversized AC, and the Last Homes That Can Still Get Gas

This podcast is brought to you by Open Door Mission, restoring hope and changing lives. opendoormission.com. Well, don't look now, but I think it's time for the Wise Home Energy Show once again here on, the Voice of Liberty, WYSL

WLEA. Pure energy. And here's your host with the most, Jeff Flaherty. Hey, Bob. So happy to be back here talking to you and, uh, all our listeners. And all the other fine folks.

Ah, it's exciting. It's been a beautiful summer. Yeah, it' has. Boy, I'm telling you, it was a slow start, but, uh, once we got into July and, and now

August, one beautiful day after another. It has been beautiful. And, uh, yeah, occasionally we get a stretch where it's just you don't need heat or cool, you just open the windows. Those are certainly one of my favorite times of the year. Fresh air. I love fresh air. Fresh air, yes. Get outside and enjoy it while you can, any time of year, really. Store this up. Yeah. You, you wanna remember these days in February. Absolutely. And we did have really some quite hot stretches there where the AC was cranking. I noticed that on my electric bill. Yeah, and we got a lot of calls like that on the electric bill, and, and things are, uh, something's wrong, and I need an energy audit. People would call up and, and say that, and I would say, "Well, why don't you send over your bill and, and we'll see if that's something that you might need?" And, uh, you know, o- one lady called and, and the more I talked to her I, I said, "Well, is your air conditioning keeping your home cool?" "Well, no, no, not anymore. Not this year. But it's been hot." And I said, "Well, I think you need a service call on your AC first, uh, and then we can look at doing the energy audit." So that's part of the, uh, triage that we do when someone calls with, uh, the high electric bill. 'Cause we've, we've gotten a lot of those with the demand meter. I had a, I had a gentleman call me a couple months ago and he, uh, he said that he's got the new smart meter and his bills are out of control. And, um, and I, maybe I said demand meter, but he, i- it's the new smart meter, and he said, "I think they have a demand meter." So a demand meter is, uh, a more of a commercial meter where it measures your peak usage, uh, of electricity and it says, "We're gonna bill you a portion of that, 'cause you are using at the highest point of the, the system demand, and we have to pay on the spot market to produce that." So they charge you, uh, for your, your highest use in a year.

And, uh, he thought he had one on his residential property. And he was a bit of a curmudgeon, if I can say that. Is that a, is that a swear word? No. I forget how that works. Okay. No. It's a, it's a description of me- Okay ... so it's, it's, it's fine.

So he, uh, he said, "Well, mail, you know, mail me the information. I don't do email." And, and I said, "Well, I need to see your bill." So it came in and, uh, a- and then the mail problems that took a couple months to come in and, and

I looked at the bill and I looked at his house and he said he had never really made any upgrades to this '60s home, and the usage looked normal. And you can tell by the bill that there's no demand charge.

And so I text him, you know, "Hey, this is what I found. Y- this is, this-- I'm gonna come out and I'm not gonna be able to solve your, your gripe against the utility that your bill is high." And our texting service, uh, has the federal, uh, disclosure of stop. If you don't want the text, you text back stop.

So he must have forgot who we were. So I just mailed him a little letter and said, "You know, your bill's, you know, the, the, the usage is the same. Prices go up." Mm. Yes, yeah. And, and they seem to go up on everything. It seems to be a universal law. Uh, part of it's inflation, part of it's other things, and stuff goes up. Even the Dow Jones, I, I did a, you know, looked at the graph and it historically has always kinda gone up over time and, and it has peaks of low, but it goes up. And that's what's happened, uh, a lot with these, um, bills that people are complaining about and it's, and it... From my perspective it's w- if you had done your energy efficiency work 10 years ago, your, your bill wouldn't have gone up as much. You would've saved on those last 10 years, and now the 10 years going forward you could, uh, be saving on that. And so that's just part of our, uh, analysis is let's start with the bill and see, see where you're at. We must be buying a lot of power on the, uh, on the, you know, on the open market- I would- ... because, boy, I'm telling you, the, the bills I've gotten here this summer, yikes. We have, we have definitely seen a lot of calls like that. This is a demand, definitely a demand meter here. Yeah. Right. Yeah, the commercial side, definitely. Um, so that's a, that's a tricky thing and, and the powers that be have said go to electric and, and we wanna go all electric and we can't have gas, and it's, and it's, it really, uh, triggers me off to the next topic, is that New York State, or, uh, or maybe it was the governor's edict, uh, said no more natural gas for new build homes starting in January '26.

And that's, um, I'm in energy efficiency and that really frustrates me. I do not like when someone says we can't have choice. Uh, so because what happens is that messes with the market, right? It's not a competitive market anymore.

If we get rid of one option, now we limit, uh, what people can buy. Competition, when done correctly, breeds a better solution. And when, uh, when it doesn't have subsidies or restrictions, we get to see what is the better product when we just have- It's the beauty, beauty of the open market. It is a beautiful thing.

And so this, uh, you know, bill is, is gone through... And I, I don't even know if it's a bill. I think it was just a, a signature sign and it's been, it's been litigated a bit and it looks like it's, it's locked and loaded in here. And people just, um, you know, when they go to buy a new house, uh, build a new house, they cannot get natural gas to their home, uh, coming January 26.

So, uh, I know over in, uh, Greece, um, I was, uh, talking to a friend of mine, Rick Borelli. He's got one of the last, uh, uh, permitted, uh, new build, uh, projects going on in Greece. So if you're looking to build a new home in Monroe County, this is an excellent opportunity. You can still get gas. You have to really get moving. You gotta get your permits in place. Uh, but give Rick a call. It's, uh,

585-455-7425, uh, Rick Borelli. Uh, the community's, uh, um,

Pollock Place, uh, over in Greece. And, uh, but soon after that, uh, I don't know if there's any other projects going on out there of, uh, uh, some, some last, uh, permitting options for natural gas. But unless this gets reversed, you will have to have, uh, uh, non-natural gas or just electric, uh, to your home. And the problem is that we didn't even-- we don't even have the workforce trained. We have an older workforce who is completely used to gas.

Um, they are, uh, you know, reluctant to change, as most, people are. So the technology hasn't really adapted. We get calls all the time and, people say, "I want a heat pump." We say, "Great." We say, "You know, the other people, they, they just threw numbers at us, or they said it' won't work in your home." And, um, they said, "We've researched it and, we've found that, you know, you guys are, uh, quite skilled at putting these in." So we're all for it. It's a great technology. It's got some great features of being able to modulate and add more comfort.

Uh, what we don't know is what is the cost of electric gonna be, uh, in the years to come? What, what is the cost of gas? And as the powers that be, uh, manipulate that market, uh, what will happen with that? Maybe that electric will go, uh, sky, sky high.

And there's always a financial angle to it, right? I was researching before we, uh, came on the air, and there was an article over in Albany, um, uh, and a quote from a builder saying it's, you know, mandating electric, it's an indictment of New

York State's stupidity and total lack of economic sense. How's he really feel? So I wanted to read the article, but there was a paywall. So, uh, for this newspaper, uh, I couldn't get into it, and that's the way it works. There's always money involved, right? So- Isn't that funny?

We never do that to you here on the radio, folks. That's right. That's right. Uh, so, y- you know, I always think follow the money. What, what is the reasoning behind it? Um, I am a fan of we'll, we'll get more with carrots than we will with sticks, and we'll certainly get more with carrots than completely restricting your, your options. I don't, I don't know if there'll be a black market for, uh, natural gas, and people will learn how to illegally pipe it into their home. I don't think that'll be the case. But it, it really is something that, um, you should, uh, you know, try to voice your opinion to your politicians that we, we want choice. We're adults. We should be able to, uh, make choices. This natural gas, uh, not only does it come from the ground, but we have a, a local, uh, uh, what would you call it? A, uh, unique feature down south of Buffalo called the Eternal Flame, and, uh, it's gotten a lot of press lately. You'll see it on the national TV when they're doing the Bills games, and they'll show this Eternal Flame. And I've been to it once. It's a hike into the woods.

Uh, I think it's in Orchard Park area. And, uh, there is a natural methane gas, um, spigot that just comes out of the ground, these rocks with the waterfalls. It goes out. People go up and light it.

But this is-- Uh, nature is pretty powerful, and it's, it's getting this... It's bubbling the gas up to the surface, so. We've got all kinds of gas in this state, and we can't get to it. It, it, it is amazing. So, um, that's just something to consider. But, you know, again, if you're looking to build a new home and have the options of natural gas, that's a great opportunity for you up in, uh, Greece, New York.

Call Rick Borelli. It's 455-7425. Uh, 'cause what's gonna happen is if, if you don't have choice, it's just gonna drive the price up. And here we are with a housing crisis. I mean, everybody's kind of in agreement that, uh, housing shortages and, and prices of the, uh, rentals and purchases are going up. And, and then when you mess with the, uh, mechanical, uh, equipment of these homes and you limit our options, you're just driving the price up higher.

And that's- Plus, nobody voted for this. No one voted for it. That's right. It was- And, and the legislature didn't even pass muster on this. It was just an EO, executive order. Just one person by, uh, by queen's edict, I guess it would be. So, um, yeah, it's, it's sad. So at least there's some, some last, uh, minute options there for you in, uh, in Greece, New York. And hopefully, you can look around in your neck of the woods. And if you're looking to build soon, uh, check it out. But you will be--

Uh, you will have no choices soon, and that's a shame. Uh, we do, we do like free choice. I'm a big fan of that, so. Remember this on election day, ladies and gentlemen. That's right. That's right. So when you break down those bills, I was really thinking about how you, you break down those, uh, utility bills. And, and, uh, RG&E NYSEG has a little, uh, video on it. And, uh, they say that the supply, there's no profit from that. Uh, so you can get your supply from anybody, from an ESCO or it defaults to, uh, RG&E and NYSEG. Uh, then there's the delivery.

That side, they do profit, so they bring the gas to your home, and there's a separate charge for that. Uh, but what we're seeing is that supply side is, uh- Based on the spot market, so you're seeing, uh, higher, higher prices than that. Ev- like everything goes up. Uh, the supply is going up on that. And then there's policy fees. So they talk about energy efficiency, uh, fees. There's infrastructure fee, fees that, that are state-mandated and, and their video claims that they make no profits on those either. So I thought that was interesting, uh, that really just the delivery, uh, is, is what they profit on. And that supply price, uh, um, who knows what'll happen as-- if-- as you sh- move away from gas, then there'll be less development for it, so that price could go up. It's hard to say. But the products will-- both of them will go up in price because of, uh, uh, unnatural forces working on the market and not competitive nature. So like to see some changes there.

Um, and the best thing you can do, uh, is, is lower your actual usage, and that's the big thing. People call us up, it's, "Everything's gone up," it's, "Something's wrong."

Send me the bill. Let's take a look at it. I know with these new smart meters, they're, they're sending you emails that you used more this week than you did last week or this month than you did last month,

'cause these things are really monitoring in real time, and they can tell you that. And that information may be useful, and it may not be useful. But, uh, hopefully those smart meters will, you know, maybe make us think a little bit more of how we're using our home. Are we closing the blinds, not letting, letting the direct sun in? There's things you can do, um, that are no cost that can help you, uh, save money on your, on your energy bill. So that's, that's what we like to focus on at Wise Home

Energy. And, um, take advantage of these programs. These programs are there. Not all energy audits are the same. Not all insulation installs are the same. Uh, not all HVAC installs are the same. I had a, uh, customer call up, uh, the other. day and, said, "I, well, I got a quote and, uh, you know, I'm thinking maybe I should get another quote." And

I said, "Well, I don't, I don't think I need to drive out to your home. Let me just look up your home on..." And I said, "Why don't you just give me some square footage of, of what they were talking about? I don't need the prices." And, and this was like an '80s contemporary home, so you're gonna have cathedral ceilings. These are complicated homes. This is not for a novice to go to the home. And so I quoted it' up and, and, uh, said, "We're gonna have to remove the insulation." And they said, "Well, yours is like twice as much as the other companies."

And I said, "Well..." I didn't wanna say, "Well, the flaws in theirs I can see not even looking at the quote. I can see the problems in the home." So if you wanna just get insulation installed, then go with them. But- But were the other contractors doing the same thing that Wise Home Energy does?

That's-- Is this apples and oranges? Well, they claimed that they were-- they had a rebate, I think. So they played in the program, but there, there's gotta be a knowledge. So you d- you can do this blower door test, and some companies... You know, when I first started 20 years ago, hey, 5% and 10% reduction is, that's good. It's almost within the margin of error. Some homes, 5% or 10% is what we might be looking for, but, um, some homes we're looking for more. And a home like this, uh, when we start digging into some of the comfort complaints, uh, then, then we know there's better, there's better options up there. So we're, we're gonna have ice dams. Many people don't understand that when you have a cathedral ceiling and then you have a room next to it, is that that wall that splits those two, that needs to be insulated and insulated well. That is now part of the thermal boundary.

Um, and, and it's usually just some fiberglass up there, and it doesn't really perform very well. Many people don't even know about recommending it for improvement, and it's, it's a critical component when you have cathedrals, uh, coming up to flat attics. You wanna treat that, how that baffle interchange. There were skylights. It, it was, it was interesting. I'll-- It'll be interesting to see if they come back.

But... And the challenge in my industry is you can go get that cheaper, uh, install, and you can see some pictures of some insulation, and you go, "Ah, I got a, I got a, you know, a, a good product." But if your bills don't go down, if your comfort didn't improve, um, what, what are you blaming on? You know? And then you sort of forget about it and, uh, y- you might, you might create mold in the attic if it's done wrong. If you add insulation and you don't air. seal, it, uh, can, actually create more problems. So, um, those are the things that... And people don't know because they just see their bill. They just see their bill at two, three, four, or $500. They're not looking at the units. So we're, we're looking at kilowatt hours per unit a month and units of therms per month, and then we have to look at, uh, what the temperature was out that day, so we-- uh, or that month. So we, we have to rate it and say,

"Was this a, a reasonable, uh, measure of, of a winter month or a summer month?" And that's, uh, calculated by heating degree days or cooling degree days. So a little bit of a adjustment there, but those are the things that once people get the work done, they sort of really. don't know. You, know? If you get a warm and fuzzy feeling and, you know, a good handshake, and they look you in the eye and clean up, that you might think you had a good job, but you-- maybe you didn't. And that's why we use those metrics of the blower door test, uh, infrared scans, uh, properly sizing the, the HVAC equipment. And, uh- Don't oversize. Yeah. It's- Common problem, right? It is such a problem. It, it's such a problem because you just don't, um, you just don't get that, uh, nice even heat. I, I, I wanna make a video of it as really kinda like

You know, a couple, getting a couple flowers out there and you're spraying it with the sprayer or you're turning on that jet and just watch the flower, you know, be eviscerated out of the soil.

And that's kind of the difference between, um, you know, a, a nice moderate right-sized equipment versus oversized. It's just, it's turning on, blowing out real quick and then it's off.

Doesn't heat up, doesn't cool down the surfaces that you need to and, and you're uncomfortable. And you hear it come on and off and it's loud. It's got all the, the negative features that you can become accustomed to. You know? Really you can become accustomed to anything, right? It's, uh, uh, I- that's what braces are on our, on our teeth, right? They're just slightly a little uncomfortable to move them into the place we want and it's sort of the same thing with an uncomfortable home.

You can sorta just get used to that slight aggravation, uh, and never know that it could be properly, uh, fixed, so. So the conventional wisdom, of course, when you're uncomfortable in your home is, well, you know, we gotta upgrade the furnace or we gotta upgrade the air conditioning or maybe we need insulation. Maybe we need windows.

All these things, uh, are factors but not... almost never are they determinative, right? No. They, they come together, um, and how they come together, it's kinda like baking that cake, you know? You can just throw some sugar and flour and eggs together and hope and pray, uh, turn on the oven to whatever temp you want or you can follow that recipe and measure those things out, put that, uh, in that oven on that middle shelf and, uh, put it to 375 and put it for 14 minutes and maybe pull out a toothpick and stick it in there and if it sticks, that's as far as I know about- This is Jeff the baker. The way... I, I never knew that he knew how to make a pepperoni pizza like this. That's right. That's right. It, it, y- you know, that's as far as

I go on baking folks. I g- I don't have any recipes on the website but we do have the recipe for having a comfortable home on the website, so. And he will, he will not be pushing toothpicks into your walls- I will not ... to see if it's okay.

We do other tests on the walls but very similar to that. So, uh, New York State still has the, uh, no-cost energy assessment. There are rebates. Uh, people chase rebates. We use the rebates to properly fix your home. So we just want to, you know, h- give us a call, 585-270-5836.

Uh, we will just have a conversation about what you're looking to fix. Uh, we had a, we had a customer the other day call up and I ca- we call these homes, um, I don't know if they're called McMansions, but they're about 4,000 square foot, built in the '80s.

Uh, they have typical features. There's a big room over a garage and cathedral ceilings, big vaulted rooms and, um, he, uh, he, he is a commercial energy auditor and, uh, wants that energy audit and, and that sorta makes sense. His, his, his skill set is in the commercial arena.

Um, and it probably doesn't transfer great to the residential just like I wouldn't be able to walk into a hospital and, and, uh, utilize my residential skill in, in that environment 'cause it's a completely different playground.

So, uh, you know, I think it's kudos to him that he decided he'd, he'd gone as far as he could go with, uh, his IR camera and, um, and doing the things he knows and now he's, he's sought out some, uh, uh, experienced, uh, help to find out, uh, how he can fix his home. So, um, those are the type of things, uh, we're doing. The blower door test, uh, I'm always amazed at, uh, the fact that, you know, people will kind of run and turn that on and, uh, say, "Wow, it's pretty good," or, you know, "Yeah, not bad." And, and there's a lot of information there and that test we wanna do. We wanna know if it's too leaky or if it's too tight.

Uh, it can be too, it can be very tight and you can still have leaks to your attic that need to be fixed and if you don't you might have some, some moisture, some mold. You might get some ice dams. So that test, uh, needs some interpretation. It's very similar to an MRI.

Uh, I come out and look at these MRIs. Sadly I've, uh, had a lot on my knees and, you know, the doctor points at it and, and tells me all these things and I say, "I don't, I don't see any of that stuff. I just see clobs and blobs and, uh, things that I used to call my knees." So, um, there's some interpretive skills that we really need to, uh, utilize when looking at these, these tests and, uh, we use our experience. We know on the homes that we, um, have worked on and we get competitive, uh, issues like that where people are like, "Well, the other company had said that I needed this and I needed that and I should get a bigger one," and, you know, I'm not the other company, you know? Uh, it's, it's, I have experience. I'm looking at your utility bill. So those are the type of things that, uh, you know, we pride ourselves on. We'd rather not do the job- Sorry

... and, uh- Pizza delivery. That's all right. That's... We'd rather not do the job, uh, if it's not gonna, uh, get the results we want and- Right. And this is, uh, uh, and I think it's safe to say that really your approach is more of a process than it is to, "Okay. Yeah, you know what?

Uh, we'll increase this, uh, a few thousand BTUs and, uh, um, uh, you know, put in two new, uh, uh, windows in the family room." Right. Yeah.

And, and that's it. I mean, the law of unintended consequences. For every action there's a reaction. So you, if you, if you alter one part of the system we have to sorta know- What to expect. How will that, how will that work with the other, uh, parts of the system? And it's kind of the same with an attic. We, we can't just go up and blow insulation. We have to look at is it air sealed? Is there a vapor barrier? Is there an unvented bath fan? Is there other things in the attic? Boy, we have pests up here. Why do we have pests?

W- should we do some exclusion first? Let's look at our ventilation. Uh, let's, let's make sure our ventilation is working properly. Let's make our, sure our ventilation was designed properly for our attic.

It was-- could be done by a roofer who had never climbed in your attic and has no idea. He's just prescriptively recommending, uh, ventilation. I drive around homes and I see, I look up and look at roofs sometimes and

I think, "Somebody just threw a vent on there to solve a problem." I feel like knocking on the door there. Sometimes you can see there's a box vent, there's a turbine vent, there's a power vent.

And then inevitably you'll see like a, a condenser for a heat pump. None of those things worked, so then they finally just said, "Why don't we just throw a heat pump at it?" And, and, and all that seems kinda like wasted money. Y- you're just throwing stuff at it, and we don't even know if it's comfortable after all that. So, uh, so yeah, give us a call, 585-270-5836. Now's the time to really start planning because i- if you don't plan soon it'll be winter. I don't wanna say that dreaded word, and we'll have lots of snow and, and, uh, heating systems turning on for long periods of time, and icicles hanging off of gutters and, and, uh, it... Now's the time to plan. Get the process going. Start with a, just a 15-minute phone call to see what you're looking. What do you want your home to be in two years, five years,

10 years? If you want it comfortable, if you want it durable, if you want it healthy, we can develop a plan to do that. And it doesn't have to be all at once. We can develop a stage plan. Uh, and that's, you know, we, something we do. We can, we can stage this out and plan this out and do this in the right order that fits your budget. Uh, and really, it's your home. You want it to be comfortable. I don't like to be cold in a, in a, somebody's home, and I don't like to be warm in someone's home. I w- I want that, you know, comfort level to be right the way I want it, uh, or it's, it's, it bugs you. And, uh, you don't have to live with it. So it's Wise Home Energy is the, uh, name of the organization, and you've been, you've been around a little while. This is our 15th year in business.

Yep. And you specialize in the energy audits- We do ... and, uh, and getting that, uh, NYSERDA money which is available, which, uh, actually, you've, we've all paid for that. That's right. We pay for it every month whether we like it or not on our utility bill. So, uh, take- Might as well take advantage ... take advantage of it.

Uh, it, we got a, quite a large coverage area. It really matches, uh, uh, the radio stations here. So, uh, give us a call.

If we can't, uh, help you out, sometimes we can just have a conversation. We can find somebody that's in your local area or guide you to the right, uh, source to, to get you in the right shape. Sounds great. Jeff Flaherty, Wise

Home Energy. And this program, a sponsored infomercial by Wise Home Energy. Give them the contact information one more time here, Jeff. It's 585-270-5836. There it is. And, uh, give us, uh, give him a call or you can also get the podcast if you missed the show and wanna hear some more details at wysl1040.com. We'll see you next time on the Wise Home Energy Show.